# RO: Police shoot, kill mentally ill teenager **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 8, 2014, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-police-shoot-kill-mentally-ill-teenager/678311 "2014-01-08T20:55:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2014, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-police-shoot-kill-mentally-ill-teenager/678311/121 "2014-01-14T18:05:06Z")
Other than #2 and 3, you’re doing great! ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2014, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-police-shoot-kill-mentally-ill-teenager/678311/122 "2014-01-14T18:39:15Z")
> [@buddha\_david](#): > > Excuse me?? I’m fairly certain that: You misunderstood me. I meant the Internet is fantasy land where you can say whatever you want, play judge and jury, etc. I didn’t say you’re wrong, just that you haven’t proven your case to real-world standards. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2014, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-police-shoot-kill-mentally-ill-teenager/678311/123 "2014-01-14T19:08:00Z")
**buddha\_david** doesn’t have any more information than any of the rest of us reading about this story, and most of us are saying things like, “I don’t have enough information to make an informed judgement here - if it happened like the family says, yeah, the cop did very wrong, but I can’t say that based on this one news story.” **buddha** is willing to make very strong judgements about the entire judicial system based on this skimpy information - those are some pretty big leaps. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2014, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-police-shoot-kill-mentally-ill-teenager/678311/124 "2014-01-14T19:12:35Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Other than #2 and 3, you’re doing great! On #2, the officers were put on trial, the jury was not made up of LEOs, the jury saw the same video you did, and they voted to acquit. #3, the [PBA](https://www.sspba.org/gen/chapters/North_Carolina_Division_11.jsp) doesn’t have any more authority over whether or not this goes to trial than the [PBA](http://www.pba.com/), so who cares what they think? ---
**Author:** ![buddha\_david](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ee7513/32.png) [@buddha\_david](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buddha_david)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2014, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-police-shoot-kill-mentally-ill-teenager/678311/125 "2014-01-14T20:00:39Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > **buddha** is willing to make very strong judgements about the entire judicial system based on this skimpy information - those are some pretty big leaps. Are you seriously claiming that these two were completely isolated incidents? Because you are wrong, absolutely wrong. I don’t have time right now to enumerate every single event to prove how wrong you are, but here is somethign that will get you started: **[List of killings by law enforcement officers in the United States](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_killings_by_law_enforcement_officers_in_the_United_States) [List of cases of police brutality in the United States](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cases_of_police_brutality_in_the_United_States)** ---
**Author:** ![buddha\_david](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ee7513/32.png) [@buddha\_david](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buddha_david)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2014, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-police-shoot-kill-mentally-ill-teenager/678311/126 "2014-01-14T20:03:02Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > #3, the [PBA](https://www.sspba.org/gen/chapters/North_Carolina_Division_11.jsp) doesn’t have any more authority over whether or not this goes to trial than the [PBA](http://www.pba.com/), so who cares what they think? People like you who support murder of innocent civilians under color of authority, as if this were Russia or Venezuela, that’s who cares what they think. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2014, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-police-shoot-kill-mentally-ill-teenager/678311/127 "2014-01-14T20:11:30Z")
> [@buddha\_david](#): > > Are you seriously claiming that these two were completely isolated incidents? Because you are wrong, absolutely wrong. I don’t have time right now to enumerate every single event to prove how wrong you are, but here is somethign that will get you started: Citing other cases is worthless. They don’t prove anything about this case. You understand that, right? Pointing to other cases is like saying someone is guilty of theft because there’s alot of other things that were stolen by other poeple. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2014, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-police-shoot-kill-mentally-ill-teenager/678311/128 "2014-01-14T20:12:32Z")
> [@buddha\_david](#): > > People like you who support murder of innocent civilians under color of authority, as if this were Russia or Venezuela, that’s who cares what they think. Are we now going down the route of “if you don’t agree that the cops should be declared guilty without further examination, you support murder” route? Because that’s even more absurd. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2014, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-police-shoot-kill-mentally-ill-teenager/678311/129 "2014-01-14T20:13:28Z")
> [@buddha\_david](#): > > People like you who support murder of innocent civilians under color of authority You got me. Nothing I like more than the murder of innocent people. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2014, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-police-shoot-kill-mentally-ill-teenager/678311/130 "2014-01-14T20:17:42Z")
And the peasants rejoiced. ---
**Author:** ![BubbaDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bubbadog/32/333_2.png) [@BubbaDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BubbaDog)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2014, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-police-shoot-kill-mentally-ill-teenager/678311/131 "2014-01-14T20:51:39Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > Are we now going down the route of “if you don’t agree that the cops should be declared guilty without further examination, you support murder” route? Because that’s even more absurd. It’s almost to the point that his frothing and temper tantrums have his position so polluted that you go from"need more information" to hoping he’s totally wrong. We have a term for when somebody supports a position so vehemently that it causes a severe backlash. It’s called the “James Otto Effect”. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2014, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-police-shoot-kill-mentally-ill-teenager/678311/132 "2014-01-14T21:44:49Z")
> [@BubbaDog](#): > > It’s called the “James Otto Effect”. Actually, with the whole progression from OP to this point it should be called the “James Otto Cycle”. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2014, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-police-shoot-kill-mentally-ill-teenager/678311/133 "2014-01-14T21:58:23Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > You got me. Nothing I like more than the murder of innocent people. I always suspected. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2014, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-police-shoot-kill-mentally-ill-teenager/678311/134 "2014-01-14T21:59:26Z")
[QUOTE=] buddha\_david] Studies have shown that people rarely lie when they’ve just experienced a severe trauma, such as, oh i dunno say, seeing their own flesh and blood shot dead in cold blood right before their eyes. [/QUOTE] Still waiting to see those studies. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Kimballkid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b5a626/32.png) [@Kimballkid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimballkid)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2014, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-police-shoot-kill-mentally-ill-teenager/678311/135 "2014-01-14T22:01:00Z")
> [@BubbaDog](#): > > We have a term for when somebody supports a position so vehemently that it causes a severe backlash. It’s called the “James Otto Effect”. > [@Telemark](#): > > Actually, with the whole progression from OP to this point it should be called the “James Otto Cycle”. James Otto Bless you two always :):):):)🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2014, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-police-shoot-kill-mentally-ill-teenager/678311/136 "2014-01-14T22:26:49Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > You got me. Nothing I like more than the murder of innocent people. What about chocolate? Chocolate’s pretty good. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2014, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-police-shoot-kill-mentally-ill-teenager/678311/137 "2014-01-14T22:59:29Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > What about chocolate? Chocolate’s pretty good. I dunno. There’s nothing like coming home after a hard day’s work and butchering some infants. No, wait. That’s beer. Nothing like cracking open a cold beer after a hard day’s work. Infanticide is more a weekend thing. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2014, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-police-shoot-kill-mentally-ill-teenager/678311/138 "2014-01-14T23:21:55Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Still waiting to see those studies. > > Regards, > Shodan I would like to see those also. And I wonder if they have studied whether those who have just suffered emotional trauma are more or less able to describe events _accurately_. I wonder how you would set up such a study. Do you have to intuitively know when the subject is gonna be traumatized, or do you have to\* inflict \*the trauma yourself? ---
**Author:** ![outlierrn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/outlierrn/32/3005_2.png) [@outlierrn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/outlierrn)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2014, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-police-shoot-kill-mentally-ill-teenager/678311/139 "2014-01-15T00:00:51Z")
I would also like to see these studies, although, off the top of my head, I wouldn’t be surprised to find that people who had not be traumatized before took a little while to get their guile on. _Accuracy_, otoh, is a whole 'nuther thing. ---
**Author:** ![buddha\_david](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ee7513/32.png) [@buddha\_david](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buddha_david)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2014, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-police-shoot-kill-mentally-ill-teenager/678311/140 "2014-01-15T17:41:12Z")
And just as I was getting over my nausea from Monday, it looks like one of the aquitted cops [wants the authority to murder homeless men again](http://www.ocregister.com/articles/cicinelli-597262-thomas-officer.html): > [@](#): > > **Ex-officer Cicinelli wants his job back** > > A former Fullerton police officer, cleared by a jury in the death of a homeless man, will fight to get his job back with the Fullerton Police Department. > > A day after being found not guilty of involuntary manslaughter and excessive force in the death of Kelly Thomas, Jay Cicinelli told the Orange County Register he wants to return to his former job and will take the legal steps necessary to try to make that happen. Why doesn’t this homicidal jerk just settle for flipping burgers or pumping gas like the rest of us? Oh right, because he’s a homicidal jerk. And he’s too fucking ugly and fat to join the Army or Blackwater, where at least I’ll begrudgingly accept is a good place for psychopathic, homicidal jerks, since sometimes they’ll occasionally kill people who deserve killin’. I swear, if I ever become homeless, I’m staying the fuck away from Fullerton – Venice and Laguna Beach are where it’s at, anyway. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-police-shoot-kill-mentally-ill-teenager/678311.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-police-shoot-kill-mentally-ill-teenager/678311.md?page=8)