Even if chicken pox doesn’t kill you, leave you handicapped, or give you shingles, it can still affect your life for the worse. I have scars on my face from chicken pox. I think they contributed to my significant body image issues (hell, subscriptions) throughout my life. Scars on my face most certainly didn’t help. I’ve been self-conscious of them for a very long time, and I suspect they contributed to my thinking of myself as unattractive. If I have a kid, he or she is getting the chickenpox vaccine as damn early as possible.
I guess the question becomes whether it actually is more effective to be calm and rational than shrill and hysterical. The anti-vaxxers, without a shred of non-falsified evidence on their side, have gotten remarkable results with hysteria and fear-mongering. Science, thus far rational and calm, does seem to lack a certain entertainment value in its assertions. One could make the argument that the moral high ground is not as desirable if it’s not as effective and that being brutal and ridiculous could be useful if it’s promoting the common welfare. If showing graphic pictures of the ravages of measles while calling the vaxxers child-abusers works, is it a terrible solution? I suppose one could argue that the problem isn’t that emotional pro-vaxxers have gone too far, but that they have not gone far enough. Because that kind of approach is incompatible with their worldview, they aren’t able to embrace it completely. What would be interesting to me is to see a pro-vax group take a page from the pro-life playbook- graphic pictures, picketing, mocking those whose children are dead or sterile of measles- essentially adopting the take-no-prisoners approach of those who don’t have reason on their side. It might be depressing if it works well, though.
I guess if all else fails, there’s always natural selection. That is a long-term approach with a lot of collateral damage, though.
Then you can post back a response on your page - indicate that unless whomever wanting to come and meet the new sprog is fully vaccinated, then they will not be allowed to visit as you may not be telling anybody what to do with their bodies, you will be very careful what you expose the new infant to.
I actually think restricting visits to people who are vaccinated is smart. If they want to see the sprog, they can comply or wait for the email with pictures.
I went through whooping cough at just over 2 years old. I almost didn’t make it. I have chicken pox scars scattered here and there on my body, thankfully none on my face. I had pretty much every kiddy disease as a young child in the early 60s other than mumps [I caught that from a kid I was baby sitting back in 1986 :smack: I honestly figured that I had it when I was young and was safe to sit the kid. sigh] I would personally recommend vaccination. <chicken pox itch like hell>
I’ll join you.
For once, I heartily agree with Clothahump.
even sven, you’re doing the exact same thing I got called out for a while back. This is the Pit. This isn’t a place where we’re trying to convince anti-vaxers. This is a place to vent about things that bug us. And you’ve used it for that purpose as well as anyone else.
Are you honestly saying that we have to constantly worry about what other people who aren’t familiar with the Pit would think about what we say here? I don’t think the Pit could exist if that were the case.
Don’t do it. It will damage your brain.
[QUOTE=pbbth;14437709
I had no idea that something as simple as a vaccine would turn otherwise very intelligent people into nutjobs.[/QUOTE]
It’s one of the listed side effects.
Every kid in my neighborhood, including my sister got the pox when I was around 9 or so. I don’t recall my mother trying to optimize my chances of getting it on purpose, but I do remember being quarantined with my sister and going over to my infected friend’s houses while they were all spotted up. I never got it.
My husband’s first wife got it at 21 and IT KILLED HER. She was formerly healthy, and two weeks later, she was a goner. Apparently, there were complications due to the lesions breaking out internally (in the lungs).
I got my varicella shot as soon as it was available. Her death was ugly as hell.
Pox parties had some merit before the vaccination, but now it’s just bone crunching stupid. Why in hell would you want your kid to potentially suffer shingles later in life? Shingles can come on multiple times and they’re painful as hell.
As Ferret Herder said. It’s in the link in the OP.
I never, ever bullshit.
(Unless it’s a Skald hypothetical thread, or somesuch. That’s for bullshitting.)
I do request acknowledgement of my lack of bullshitting, even sven. Thank you.
Shingles repeated on my grandfather every other year once he hit 90ish. They’re probably going to affect me the same way. I’m not looking forwards to it. They floored him, and he was a yankee farmer.
I’ve got bad lungs to start with.
On the one hand, I don’t get the idea that ‘You’re not allowed to say someone’s being shrill if he’s right!’ People multitask. I, for one, am perfectly capable of being shrill and right at the same time.
On the other hand, this is the Pit. I haven’t been here very long, but I thought the whole point of this place was that you get to be as shrill as you want. It would be great if everyone was serene and wise and totally zen 24/7, and every utterance was carefully calibrated to be as wonderfully productive as possible and add harmony to the universe, but every now and then in the proper place, fuck that shit.
And that’s not valueless, either. A good rant can clear your head enough that, next time you actually encounter one of the people you were ranting about, you’re capable of being zen and productive and all that good stuff. Which you might not have been if you were still all hopped up on unvented spleen.
The more you post the less distinction I see between you and some anti-vax moron. You are a strawmanning asshole. In fact, in terms of intellectual honesty I see you as being about the same as anti-vaxers. You just happen to be on the side of correct, about the issue overall. Probably accidentally. You are either incapable of seeing even’s point, or unwilling. Either way, the IQ of this place would rise if you crawled under a rock and stayed there.
Difference: LavenderBlue’s opinion is not liable to cause her child or any other child to contract a vaccine-preventable disease and decrease herd immunity in our society. The anti-vax moron’s opinion is. I hope this helps.
There are enough people able to argue the anti-vax case with intellectual rigor and empathy that I don’t see some intellectually dishonest moron as being necessary or helpful. She may be on the same side but frankly I don’t see her as an asset to the team.
OK. I don’t find her comment (the one you quoted) suggesting that even sven go try posting a reasoned vaccine debate on Mothering.com to be particularly outrageous or strident. I can tell you what will happen if even sven or anyone else tries it: she’ll get banned. Quickly. That’s just the way they roll over there. Is that strident or shrill, to point that out? It’s the truth.
Oh shut the fuck up already. You’ve added absolutely nothing to this thread but badly phrased insults aimed at me for no reason other than to defend **Even Sven’s **ridiculous idiotic sympathy with some of the world’s stupidest people.
:rolleyes:
This the same poster who has the temerity to lecture people in this very thread about accuracy when she can’t even be bothered to read the OP and realize exactly what specific diseases they’re attempting to transmit.
The local news station informed viewers that sending diseases through the mail is illegal. :rolleyes:
**LavenderBlue **ain’t got the brains or the integrity to understand but Ms Whatsit you in my experience do.
So (histrionics, strawmanning, and anger-blindness aside) what do you think **even sven’s **position to be and what about LavenderBlue’s post do you understand to be relevant to that position?
Then you haven’t read my posts. I’ve debated this subject quite a number of times here complete with multiple reputable sources. As I pointed in out this thread studies do indicate that the chicken pox vaccine has reduced the number of deaths from the disease. That point was of course ignored.
Meanwhile your only contribution to this thread has been to whine we aren’t treating Even Sven respectfully enough while she lectures us that we aren’t being respectful enough to the anti-vax side in the pit of all places. Go stand with the anti-vax morons. You certainly sound like one of them.
Side note: The shingles vaccine not only cut cases of shingles by 51%, it also reduced incidence of the painful neuralgia by 66%! Awesome. 20% of shingles sufferers get post-herpetic neuralgia, which means the pain doesn’t “only” last 3-5 weeks, but more like months, years, or the rest of your life. Burning pain for up to decades just because you got chicken pox as a kid.
Plus shingles vaccine among those who’ve already suffered from chicken pox could help reduce the incidence of the latter disease, as varicella virus shed from shingles sores will cause chicken pox in those who are susceptible. This can help protect quite a few immunosuppressed or too-young-for-vaccinations people who may otherwise want to visit with an older person who might otherwise get shingles.
You ain’t getting it. Fighting anti-vax is about persuading humans about science. The “persuading humans” bit is very, very important. Your *non sequitur *of a post just quoted shows by just how much you don’t get it. You aren’t within a country mile of showing any ability at all to understand what **even **and I are saying.