Aw, but you just have to try “nice” a little bit longer. That’s why the Republicans are this close to shit-canning the ideological rhetoric and working with the Administration… :rolleyes:
These last few posts would all make sense if either I or **even sven **had defended sending infectious material through the post, or suggested that those who did so or advocated doing so should be treated other than harshly. But since neither of us have, I guess not. Though when you have nothing left, pretending posters are defending something they are not is all you’ve got left, I suppose.
Oh, and in anticipation of what some dumbass is going to say next, if you are so fucking thick and inexperienced in the ways of these boards to think that every thread remains on topic, please post something like “but this thread is purely about sending stuff through the post”.
Please. It would be entertaining. Go on, you know you want to.
And LavenderBlue, why don’t you post about fifty times more about how I and even sven should go and debate on Mothering.com? I’ve explained several times why this would be pointless and unrelated to anything I’ve been saying, but since you are into showing how uncomprehending you are, amuse me by doing it over and over while I point and laugh.
I suggested you go and her go on mothering because many of the idiots over there label themselves the very same fence sitters you seem to respect so much, you ill informed smug twit. Since you are of the poorly thought out belief that if we just politely walked them through errors of their ways and recited the words CDC five times they will magically change their minds I suggested you go over there and show us how it is done. You have repeatedly defended the fence sitters. Show us how to convince them, oh wise one!
Or you could just back to hurling childish insults while proclaming me shrill a dozen times more.
Your choice.
The thing about many of the anti-vax nuts and their leaders is that they won’t admit they’re anti-vax. Nah. They’ll call themselves fence sitters and couch their objections in vapid phrases. They just want to green our vaccines. Or remove the “toxins.” Or stop too many too soon. It’s the same stupid mantra over and over again. And ultimately it’s the same stupid belief. At some point if you really and truly need someone to hold your hand and explain to you that you should believe the CDC or the WHO instead of a former Playboy bunny you are an idiot who be banished from polite society because we cannot trust you not to attempt to kill our children.
I was going to come in and apologize for not knowing that some people had contemplated sending more than chicken pox.
But you know what? I resent the fuck out of your pansy little insinuations that because I’m not foaming at the mouth for some anti-vaxx blood, I must be a secret sympathizer.
You guys are dumb.
Oh, shut the fuck up, you sanctimonious little twat. You came into a PIT THREAD and got all tsk tsk about how mean we were to the poor ickle anti-vaxxers, when any sort of search whatsoever would have shown that many of us have been having the same goddamn conversations with the same goddamn idiots for years.
A PIT THREAD, for the love of little fucking green applies. A forum designed for venting, on a message board that as much as we’d like to believe is important, really isn’t.
How people express themselves in the Pit, or on this message board in general, may or may not be an indicate of how they interact with the outside world (thank god, or I might think that you’re a sanctimonious little twat everywhere and not just here). You’ve been around long enough to know this, and still felt it necessary to swan in here and schoolmarm it up about how we need to be NICER to people who think that Jenny McCarthy is worthy of consideration. Because if we’d just be NICER, and more PATIENT, that we’d convince illogical morons of their illogical moronicity.
Sometimes, people just want to yell about shit for a while, and then get back to doing whatever it is they need to do to make a difference. Having someone shake a cyber-finger in their face pisses them off, get it?
So, shut. The Fuck. Up.
I came in here and expressed my opinion in a pretty rational way. I don’t think it’s an exceptionally “out there” opinion, and I wasn’t calling anyone names or attacking them personally. I have a different opinion on what the priorities are when it comes to anti-vaxxers, and what I saw in this thread worries me about the way that this dialogue is going.
For that, I get called a troll, which is obnoxious but I figured I worded myself poorly and people didn’t quite get what I was trying to say. No. Then I get a pile of insinuation, post after post, that I’m some kind of crypto-anti-vaxxer. That really gets my goat, and you know that it would. I try to be a reasonable poster these days, and not insult people (besides curlcoat), and to apologize promptly when I cross the line.
But really, I’m not an anti-vaxxer. Stop trying to hint that I am one, or if you are really attached to the idea, have the balls to come out and say it rather than dropping coy little hints.
I’m not sure whether you’re anti-vax or not, frankly. You’re either getting all fucking holier-than-thou and concern troll - “what I saw in this thread worries me…” - or personally offended. Given that you get all holier-than-thou about a lot of shit on this board, I’m willing to go with that, but I’m not putting the other out of the realm of possibility.
You admitted that you never (until this thread) bothered to check out mothering dot com, and then stated that after perusing a WHOLE FIVE THREADS that the site looked like a valid site to you. Without stopping to think that perhaps others of us have had more experience with you about that board - after all, perhaps some of us have read MORE than five threads. I know LavenderBlue was banned from the board for even attempting to discuss (yes, in a polite way) the possibility that perhaps vaccines weren’t the complete and utter government conspiracy to kill children that the mothering morons claim. She’s not the only Doper to whom that’s happened.
Other people actually DO have valid experiences that you haven’t had - I know it may be difficult for you to realize this, but give it a try.
Again, I would like to point out that this is a PIT THREAD. In a forum designed for venting. Those of us who come here to vent don’t necessarily vent this way outside of the pit, and your high-and-mighty defense of the poor helpless anti-vaxxers who are so delicate that they can’t possibly tolerate our anger is a bit ridiculous, given that you should know at this point the purpose of the pit.
So, again - shut. the. fuck. up. about how we all need to be so concerned about tone and dialogue and reaching the hearts and minds blah blah blah. It’s the Pit. I’m ranting. Don’t like it? Tough shit. Trust me when I tell you that Kim Stagliano and Jenny McCarthy and Dan Olmstead and the rest of the morons at mothering dot com and the Age of Autism couldn’t possibly be less interested in my tone.
Or don’t trust me. I really couldn’t give a shit. Your concern troll nonsense makes you look ridiculous regardless of my opinion.
Nice. A troll and an anti-vaxer in one paragraph. Can’t you think of some more random bad things to call me?
Really? I called Mothering a “valid” site? I didn’t say something along the lines of “to someone without much background who was surfing casually and who didn’t know Mothering from Adam, it would appear to be a pretty reasonable place?”
I honestly can’t tell if you are too blinded by the holy rage to be able/willing to read for comprehension or if you know perfectly well what I wrote and are are choosing to make stuff up because it makes for a better story.
Give me a few minutes, and I probably could think of some other things to call you. Of course, my calling you a concern troll is based on your statements of actually BEING concerned about the tone and the dialogue that us poor mean vaccine supporters were using. In a PIT thread. On a message board that’s really not all that and a bag of chips. That anti-vaxxers don’t give a shit about.
What’s the difference between your “From the point of view of a newbie, it did look like a calm and reasonable place” and calling it a valid site? And the assumption that after reading, gosh, a WHOLE FIVE THREADS after all, you should be the expert on it! Not people who’ve attempted to actually engage in discussion there, people who’ve read it and monitored it for years, people who’ve been banned from it for attempting to have a reasonable dialogue. No, only you, who read a WHOLE FIVE THREADS.
If you can’t see how your statement is 1) the equivalent of saying the site is valid and 2) insulting to the those of us with ACTUAL experience with it, then you’re dumber than I assumed you were.
Lemme fill you in on something, sunshine, since you seem to be unable to follow along. Once again for the cheap seats, THIS IS THE FUCKING PIT, a forum on a message board that is designed for people to vent about shit that pisses them off. When you stalk in here like the Avenging Angel of Appropriate Tone, and start waving your nun ruler around about how we all need to be calmer and nicer and less angry, you look like what I called you - a concern troll. Or more specifically, a tone troll - someone who is so desperately worried about the lack of civility in a conversation.
So run along, please, and let the pit be what it was designed to be - a place to blow off steam so that those of us doing so can then return to our regularly-scheduled non-steam behavior. Thanks ever so.
Sorry, you and I both agree and have both said that this would be pointless since they don’t accept dissent there and I’d just be banned. I have never suggested that mothering.com is a forum with any redeeming features, and we both agree it is beyond redemption. I’ve only said this about five times. Yet every time you come back and say “why don’t you go debate on mothering.com”. Why is that? Do you think mothering.com is the only place on the internet where this topic is discussed? Did our little *contre temps *not start about debating standards here?
Now, tell me to go debate on mothering.com again, you don’t look nearly stupid enough yet.
Kolga, are we bothering you? You keep telling me and **even sven **to shut up. Does dissent bother you? If hearing things you don’t like upsets you, maybe you should leave, petal. This is after all the pit. We can say whatever we want. As can you of course, but then it’s not me screaming at you to shut up.
I love the whole “if you disagree with my tactics you clearly aren’t on our side” thing you’re doing. “You’re either with us or you are against us”. Very Bush administration and hence somewhat late 2000’s but I guess that sort of thing never goes out of style.
Concern/tone trolls don’t “bother” me. They amuse me, mostly, although they are a bit annoying depending on the circumstance.
And yes, this is the pit. So you can say whatever you want, knock yourself out.
And I can say whatever I want. Which is why I’m saying that you and even sven are a couple of useless tone trolls who waltzed in here for no reason just to make yourselves feel all superior and wag your fingers and tsk tsk and scold and whatever else about an issue that you’re not really that interested in. You just wanted to act like a couple of right bitches to feed your egos. Well done. <yawn>
Yes, yes, disagreeing with you and pointing out your idiocy is screaming. We get that. Shrill, shrieking, screaming, hysterical…any other words you want to use to feel that you’ve accomplished anything of importance?
In the meantime, I’ll continue to point out that people who attempt to send live virus through the mail need to be brought upon bioweapons/domestic terrorism charges, and that anti-vaxxers are drooling morons who wouldn’t understand biology if it fucked them up the ass.
Yes, that’s why you keep screaming “shut up, shut up, shut up” like a squeeling 10 year old girl. You’re amused or a bit annoyed. Uh huh. Not threatened or scared. Amused. Right.
I am amused and entertained by Kolga’s posts, and since I come to this message board for amusement and entertainment, I would like to encourage her (him?) to continue. Your posts, Princhester, are somewhat less entertaining and amusing. Perhaps this is something you could work on.
No one cares if you disagree with their tactics, because there are no “tactics” here. There are no anti-vax folks here in this thread, and there are very few on this board that I’m aware of. The few times I’ve seen anyone venture to question vaccines here, they’ve been promptly refuted, mostly in a calm and logical manner. This particular thread isn’t a debate thread, it’s a recreational outrage thread. If you want to debate vaccines, start a thread in GD and see if you’ll even get any takers to argue the other side (you probably won’t). If you want to debate what tactics work with anti-vaccine folks, you can start a thread in GD about that, too (the answer is “nothing works,” but debate away if that’s fun for you). The point people are trying to make here is that once you’ve read enough anti-vax rhetoric and once you’ve spent enough time trying to debate anti-vax people, you get fucking frustrated and angry and you want to blow off steam. And that’s what the Pit is for.
Don’t flatter yourself, sparky. I’m not sitting here at my computer shrieking. I’m saying “oh, shut the fuck up” to both you and the other sanctimonious twat with the kind of bored, dismissive attitude I us with my dog when he won’t settle down after the mailman comes.
Her. And thanks. I don’t think of myself as amusing or entertaining, but I’ll try to keep it up 
Not to interrrupt the argument, but the “you need to be calm and rational when debating this” folks seem to be asserting that rational, calm arguments are more effective than histrionic “think of the chiiiildren” arguments in these kinds of debates.
Do we, in fact, have any evidence that this is the case when convincing a relatively ill-informed public of something? Because if we do, it would be instructive in helping develop a strategy. If we don’t, the moral imperative for rational debate with anti-vaxxers has no legs.
even sven,
You santimoniously marched into this thread and had the goddamned nerve to call me out for not being polite enough in a pit thread.
Fuck you.
I’ve repeatedly debated this issue over the years on various websites including this one. I’ve pulled up cite after cite after cite. I have spent hours politely debating with the anti-vax bridage, most of whom will not describe themselves as anti-vax but rather vaccine safety advocates or fence sitters or some such obfuscational bullshit.
Here’s one such thread where many members of this board including myself and Kolga and Jackmanii politely attempt to address an alleged fence sitter with multiple sources and well referenced posts. Note the part where Interested Observer shows up, pretends not to be an anti-vaxxer, fills the thread with Gish Gallop and then basically throws a hissy fit and stomps off.
Since you think it is oh so easy to convince those people then I say go ahead. Many of them post at Mothering. They’ll tell you they’re not anti-vax. Nah. They’re like Barbara Loe Fisher who calls herself a vaccine safety advocate. Dr. Paul Offit calls her a liar and no one would read her stupid fucking website and vaccinate. But she’s not anti-vax. Oh no not at all. She’s just in favor of safer and better vaccines.
Yeah.
So go to Mothering where many such people hang out. Or some other website. Show us exactly how to reach the fence sitters since you think it’s so easy.
Oh maybe you could just the fuck up and stop whining that people are venting in a pit thread.
In my years of watching and engaging in conversations with anti-vaxxers, nothing will change their mind. You can provide them with all the facts and scientific research available, and they’ll dismiss it as a government and Big Pharma conspiracy to poison our children.
Now, for people who might TRULY be “on the fence” (instead of people who claim they are on the fence but are actually anti-vaxxers in disguise), I believe that definitely calm and dispassionate are the way to go. And when I am talking to those people, I am calm and logical. If I were at work, I could provide you with cites about communication strategies that are more or less effective, but that’ll have to wait until later today when I’m at the office and have a minute.
Ah yes, the “I’m not anti-vaccine, I’m pro SAFE vaccine” bit. Seen it a million times. Funny how there’s not a vaccine in the world that meets their criteria of “safe.”