# RO: This is totally going to kill Bring Your Clock to School Day **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 16, 2015, 8:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-this-is-totally-going-to-kill-bring-your-clock-to-school-day/731454 "2015-09-16T08:35:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 18
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2015, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-this-is-totally-going-to-kill-bring-your-clock-to-school-day/731454/341 "2015-09-19T16:41:01Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > Jesus your-fucking-self. This is some srsly revisionist history. Do you really want me to embarrass the people who, earlier in this thread, were hailing him as a great prodigy who was going to be the next Elon Musk or something? Do you want me to cite the stories that did \*not \*quote him as this being something he just “rebuilt” or threw together but “invented” or “created”? I would bet a large sum of money (if I had one) that a majority of the people who are aware of this story do not know he just quickly rebuilt an already-existing clock. > > BTW, if someone deserves to be “Queen for a day”, get the red carpet at the White House, etc., it’s [this kid.](http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonkblog/wp/2015/03/16/virginia-school-suspends-an-11-year-old-for-one-year-over-a-leaf-that-wasnt-marijuana/?tid=pm_business_pop_b) I don’t give a fuck what you do. I suspect what you will do is continue to dog this 14 year old kid that you have some kind of weird hard-on for. The one nice thing is that you have solidly revealed what kind of a giant self-pitying douchebag you are. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2015, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-this-is-totally-going-to-kill-bring-your-clock-to-school-day/731454/342 "2015-09-19T16:53:22Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Again, though, there’s zero evidence that the kid intended to hoax anyone with it, and plenty of evidence that he had no such intent. Once it was kicked upstairs, the principal correctly investigated the issue; things went off the rails when the issue was escalated to the police. This is not clear to me, some reports I read tell us that the Principal was with the police before the student was taken away in handcuffs, if this was “correctly” investigated I think that the Principal would had complained, the letter sent later to the parents tells me that the administration was blaming the kid even after that "correct"investigation. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2015, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-this-is-totally-going-to-kill-bring-your-clock-to-school-day/731454/343 "2015-09-19T17:19:15Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > This is not clear to me, some reports I read tell us that the Principal was with the police before the student was taken away in handcuffs, if this was “correctly” investigated I think that the Principal would had complained, the letter sent later to the parents tells me that the administration was blaming the kid even after that "correct"investigation. Ah–I think the lack of clarity is mine :). What I meant was that things went off the rails the moment the principal escalated to the police. That escalation was itself unnecessary: while the police might need to get involved if something risks actually being a bomb, a principal has the discretion, authority, and judgment to determine whether a kid is intending to foment a bomb scare with something that’s clearly not a bomb. There was no call at all to involve the police (although Texas is [notorious for involving the police unnecessarily in school matters](https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/in-texas-schools-a-criminal-response-to-misbehavior/2011/08/04/gIQA5EG9UJ_story.html).) ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2015, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-this-is-totally-going-to-kill-bring-your-clock-to-school-day/731454/344 "2015-09-19T19:24:04Z")
In order for it to be a ‘hoax bomb’ - which I believe the law/rule would have been to prevent someone saying “I never intended to scare people with the fake bomb (that actually looks like a bomb) that I left to be discovered” - and then getting away with it since it wasn’t, in fact, a bobm. In other words - seems that the ‘hoax bomb’ rule should come in after people are legitimately called in to action by being actaully scared - IE - a ‘bomb threat with a fake bomb’ - the clearing of the school, the bomb squad coming in, etc - and still then you should have to prove that intent. Had Ahmend left his beeping backpack to be found by a teach in the hallway, locker or bathroom - and then those things happened, I could see the aftermath - none of that happened. Since there was never a threat, and no clear indication that Ahmed intended it to be ‘discovered and look like a threat’ - it can’t truly be called a ‘hoax bomb’. That people went off the rails after it was clear it was no threat with 'well maybe he intended to maybe …" is bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2015, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-this-is-totally-going-to-kill-bring-your-clock-to-school-day/731454/345 "2015-09-19T19:56:05Z")
Pretty much the first thing he did with it was show it to the science teacher and tell him what he had done, make a clock out of old bits. Hard to make any argument for a hoax when that’s the first thing he did. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2015, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-this-is-totally-going-to-kill-bring-your-clock-to-school-day/731454/346 "2015-09-19T19:58:59Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > Pretty much the first thing he did with it was show it to the science teacher and tell him what he had done, make a clock out of old bits. Hard to make any argument for a hoax when that’s the first thing he did. exactly. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Librarian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_librarian/32/402_2.png) [@The\_Librarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Librarian)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2015, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-this-is-totally-going-to-kill-bring-your-clock-to-school-day/731454/347 "2015-09-19T20:16:05Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Much as I think they overreacted, I think this kind of argument is missing a key point. It was clearly not a bomb. But it was not clearly not a **hoax bomb** , at least at first. And an unconvincing hoax bomb is still not something a kid should be bringing to school. > > If teachers thought maybe he was planning on pulling some sort of bomb prank with it, they acted reasonably in kicking the issue upstairs, even if they knew for sure it wasn’t an actual bomb. The crime of pulling a bomb hoax does not depend on the skill with which the hoax bomb was made. > > Again, though, there’s zero evidence that the kid intended to hoax anyone with it, and plenty of evidence that he had no such intent. Once it was kicked upstairs, the principal correctly investigated the issue; things went off the rails when the issue was escalated to the police. By this reasoning you cannot go to school with any kind of electronic circuit. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2015, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-this-is-totally-going-to-kill-bring-your-clock-to-school-day/731454/348 "2015-09-19T21:32:21Z")
> [@The\_Librarian](#): > > By this reasoning you cannot go to school with any kind of electronic circuit. What? That has jack all to do with what I said. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2015, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-this-is-totally-going-to-kill-bring-your-clock-to-school-day/731454/349 "2015-09-19T21:47:42Z")
> [@The\_Librarian](#): > > By this reasoning you cannot go to school with any kind of electronic circuit. By that reasoning you cannot go to school with any big red timer built into a briefcase (or a briefcase-styled pencilcase). Not that I don’t think a briefcase bomb-themed alarm clock is a cool idea. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2015, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-this-is-totally-going-to-kill-bring-your-clock-to-school-day/731454/350 "2015-09-19T21:59:18Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > What? That has jack all to do with what I said. No, it has everything to do with what you said. You admit it doesn’t look like a bomb. You appear to agree that the kid never said it was a bomb. Yet you argue that the investigation to see if it was a hoax bomb is okay. So what makes it okay to investigate? Seems like the only problem with this particular item was that it has a circuit board in it. It looked like something he’d made, so they assumed a clock must be a bomb. (I guess they could be outlawing clocks, but that seems even more ridiculous.) It should be obvious that you don’t need to investigate a hoax bomb unless the item looks like a bomb, or the kid has been telling people it’s a bomb. Otherwise, it cannot be a hoax bomb. To be a hoax, you have to be trying to convince people that it’s real. The point is, they knew it wasn’t a bomb, and the kid never said it was. Therefore, the investigation was wrong. No kicking it upstairs. Just treat your fucking students with a modicum of respect. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2015, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-this-is-totally-going-to-kill-bring-your-clock-to-school-day/731454/351 "2015-09-19T22:09:08Z")
Remember, the alarm went off in his backpack, and he immediately told them it wasn’t a bomb. Thus it could never have been a hoax bomb, and the teacher was wrong to report it as such. Yeah, if the teacher had reported but the principal had realized it wasn’t a hoax bomb and told her to calm down, we’d be talking about how stupid and/or racist the teacher was instead of the school system and police department. Yes a lot of errors happened after the teacher made her mistake. But the teacher got the ball rolling–unlike the other science teacher he showed it to. That’s the one who did the right thing. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2015, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-this-is-totally-going-to-kill-bring-your-clock-to-school-day/731454/352 "2015-09-19T22:10:49Z")
Part of the education system in a police state includes arresting young students. Think of it as a co-op experience. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2015, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-this-is-totally-going-to-kill-bring-your-clock-to-school-day/731454/353 "2015-09-19T22:22:07Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > No, it has everything to do with what you said. No, dude, it doesn’t. > [@](#): > > The point is, they knew it wasn’t a bomb, and the kid never said it was. Therefore, the investigation was wrong. No kicking it upstairs. Just treat your fucking students with a modicum of respect. I treat my fucking students with a modicum of respect, thank you. The teacher is not in a position to know what the kid is planning to do with it, nor does the teacher have time to find out what the kid may have told others. Thus the investigation by the principal. Involving the police was insane. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2015, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-this-is-totally-going-to-kill-bring-your-clock-to-school-day/731454/354 "2015-09-19T22:29:11Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > … > > I treat my _fucking students_ with a modicum of\* respect\*, thank you. … emph. mine I’m not sure that’s the best way to say that. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![The\_Librarian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_librarian/32/402_2.png) [@The\_Librarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Librarian)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2015, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-this-is-totally-going-to-kill-bring-your-clock-to-school-day/731454/355 "2015-09-19T23:24:22Z")
**Left Hand of Dorkness** , what I am trying to tell you is that the hoax bomb argument doesn’t hold any water. The school’s actions cannot be justified by just claiming “it could be a hoax bomb”. All you need for a bomb hoax is some kind of container and someone who believes it is actually a bomb. Leading people to believe there is actually a bomb on the premises is something that is probably illegal everywhere. The props for something like that are not. Which is quite convenient for everyone, since that allows us to, you know, _carry shit around_. Until you try to convince anyone your contraption is actually a bomb, nothing qualifies as a hoax bomb. There is no such animal. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2015, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-this-is-totally-going-to-kill-bring-your-clock-to-school-day/731454/356 "2015-09-19T23:33:56Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Remember, the alarm went off in his backpack, and he immediately told them it wasn’t a bomb. Thus it could never have been a hoax bomb, and the teacher was wrong to report it as such. > > Yeah, if the teacher had reported but the principal had realized it wasn’t a hoax bomb and told her to calm down, we’d be talking about how stupid and/or racist the teacher was instead of the school system and police department. Yes a lot of errors happened after the teacher made her mistake. > > But the teacher got the ball rolling–unlike the other science teacher he showed it to. That’s the one who did the right thing. Actually - I’m not sure if he did - If, as was implied, he told Ahmed “not to show it to other teachers” for fear they may think it was a bomb or dangerous - he had options in front of him to prevent any potential confusion - off the top of my head he could have a) kept the device for Ahmed and explained to him why, and let him pick it back up at the end of the day b) taped a note to the device that says “this is not a bomb, signed engineering Teacher - see me if you have questions/concerns” c) called Ahmed’s parents and said “while I realize this is not anything that could be a threat or seen as such by a reasonable person, maybe you could drop by and pick this up - it does have a lot of exposed circuits” and kept it with him until they did so. Just letting ahmed leave the room with it with a “don’t show this” isn’t really helpful - unless of course, the implication of “don’t show this” was really “keep this put away and do your work” type of thing. ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2015, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-this-is-totally-going-to-kill-bring-your-clock-to-school-day/731454/357 "2015-09-19T23:35:52Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > emph. mine > > I’m not sure that’s the best way to say that. 🙂 Unless you’re replying directly to someone who’s talking about how you treat your: > [@BigT](#): > > fucking students ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2015, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-this-is-totally-going-to-kill-bring-your-clock-to-school-day/731454/358 "2015-09-19T23:43:43Z")
> [@The\_Librarian](#): > > Until you try to convince anyone your contraption is actually a bomb, nothing qualifies as a hoax bomb. There is no such animal. And **LHoD** ’s point is that it wasn’t within the English teacher’s range of investigative authority to make the determination about Ahmed’s _intent_ regarding the device. So kicking the investigation up the administrative ladder was appropriate, even though the English teacher knew, as did the shop teacher, that the device was not a bomb. The question was whether Ahmed intended to use the circuit board and LED display he’d encased in a pencil box and put into a backpack to pull a hoax. The dumb things were done by the principal, because he should’ve been able to resolve that question by speaking to the boy and his teachers, without calling in law enforcement. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2015, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-this-is-totally-going-to-kill-bring-your-clock-to-school-day/731454/359 "2015-09-19T23:49:13Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > BTW, if someone deserves to be “Queen for a day”, get the red carpet at the White House, etc., it’s [this kid.](http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonkblog/wp/2015/03/16/virginia-school-suspends-an-11-year-old-for-one-year-over-a-leaf-that-wasnt-marijuana/?tid=pm_business_pop_b) > [@](#): > > It doesn’t matter if your son or daughter brings a real pot leaf to school, or if he brings something that looks like a pot leaf – okra, tomato, maple, buckeye, etc. If your kid calls it marijuana as a joke, or if another kid thinks it might be marijuana, that’s grounds for expulsion. BUCKEYE??!! _Slowwwwwwly I turned…_ ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2015, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-this-is-totally-going-to-kill-bring-your-clock-to-school-day/731454/360 "2015-09-20T00:34:17Z")
> [@xenophon41](#): > > And **LHoD** ’s point is that it wasn’t within the English teacher’s range of investigative authority to make the determination about Ahmed’s _intent_ regarding the device. Exactly. And before someone makes a dumb argument, I’d like to forestall it. There’s a difference between a regular pencil box and a pencil box with a digital display and wires sticking out of it, when it comes to which is likelier to be intended for use in shenanigans. Fact is, some kids do bomb pranks. And a kid who wanted to do a bomb prank is likely to want something that looks like a tv-style bomb. And this thing, while it was clearly not a bomb, had some bomblike trappings to it. He brought it to the teacher after it started beeping and said, “it’s just a clock.” This is consistent with what a kid who’s planning a hoax with it later might say, in order not to get busted by that particular teacher. [edit: and, obviously, it’s consistent with what an innocent kid would say. I wish I didn’t think pointing out such obvious things were necessary]. It’s reasonable for a teacher to say, “Yeah, just in case, I’m gonna run this one by admin.” Running it by admin, again, is a way of making sure that all bases are covered. Admin can talk with the kid and with other teachers and with other students if necessary, determine that the kid in no way is behaving like a hoaxster (not furtively showing it to others, not posting mysterious online messages about his Big Surprise for the school at lunch tomorrow, not going around humming Mission Impossible theme songs), and send the kid off. Calling the police is the moment where things went off the rails. Ensuring that the kid with the clock isn’t planning anything foolish with his clock is not. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-this-is-totally-going-to-kill-bring-your-clock-to-school-day/731454.md?page=17) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-this-is-totally-going-to-kill-bring-your-clock-to-school-day/731454.md?page=19)