# RO: This is totally going to kill Bring Your Clock to School Day **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 16, 2015, 8:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-this-is-totally-going-to-kill-bring-your-clock-to-school-day/731454 "2015-09-16T08:35:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 27
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2015, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-this-is-totally-going-to-kill-bring-your-clock-to-school-day/731454/521 "2015-09-21T21:21:03Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Seems to me there are 2 issues here: > > 1. Did the kid bring something to school that could reasonable be considered to be against the rule they have about bringing a fake bomb to school. > > 2. If yes to #1, did the administration and police over-react? Yes to both. The device, as we’ve discussed in this thread, fits the state’s definition of a “hoax bomb” and I’m sure could reasonably be ruled to be in violation of school policy (although I’d like to see the actual policy). It mystifies me why the engineering/shop/science teacher in 1st period wasn’t more helpful to Ahmed. (S)He clearly saw no ill intent on the kid’s part, but also clearly saw the device as problematic to carry around in school. If s/he wasn’t going to kick it to administration as a potential rule violation, s/he probably should’ve confiscated the clock to return to Ahmed at the end of the day, _or explained to him why it was provocative_. > [@](#): > > Extra credit: Would it have made a difference it his name was Jimmy White, and he was a Christian. Probably wouldn’t have made a difference as far as the school rule violation, but I’d argue that Ahmed Mohamed’s ethnicity and religion were possible factors in the principal’s decision to involve law enforcement. Obviously, we can’t know this, but I wouldn’t poo-poo the notion. I think ‘Jimmy White’ would’ve likely faced a suspension and a call to parents to pick him up from school. The LEO involvement might well be a requirement of some zero tolerance policy, but that’s not mentioned in the letter to parents from the school, and no one has mentioned it as a defense of the school’s actions, so who knows. ---
**Author:** ![beowulff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beowulff/32/542_2.png) [@beowulff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beowulff)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2015, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-this-is-totally-going-to-kill-bring-your-clock-to-school-day/731454/522 "2015-09-21T21:24:44Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Let me hijack the thread to Pit the Internet Powers that Be. I cannot access that image: (Does [artvoice.com](http://artvoice.com) needs some cookies from me?) “403. You don’t have permission to access /techvoice/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/header.jpg on this server.” > > NM – I’ll Google if I get desperate to see a photo; I just wanted to Pit links that don’t work, sites that deny permission, etc. Try copying and pasting the link directly into your address bar. Many sites won’t hot-link from the SDMB. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2015, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-this-is-totally-going-to-kill-bring-your-clock-to-school-day/731454/523 "2015-09-21T21:25:20Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Frankly, I say “yes” to number 1. And I think the kid was, at best, naive to not know that. Now, lots of kids are naive at 14, so maybe that’s just par for the course. Frankly, i’m staggered that you can reach this conclusion. The kids never represented the device as anything but a clock. The first person he showed it to was the person probably most qualified to judge whether it was, in fact, a clock. That person confirmed that it was, in fact, a clock. He kept the device in his bag, rather than showing it around or leaving it in a suspicious location. When it beeped, and he was asked about it, he said it was a clock, and when the person most qualified to judge the device was called in, he confirmed (once again) that it was a clock, and that he had already established its clockiness earlier in the day. Jesus H. Christ, what more do you want? ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2015, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-this-is-totally-going-to-kill-bring-your-clock-to-school-day/731454/524 "2015-09-21T21:26:22Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Let me hijack the thread to Pit the Internet Powers that Be. I cannot access that image: (Does [artvoice.com](http://artvoice.com) needs some cookies from me?) The website is discouraging direct linking to their pictures. Copy the address and paste into another tab, it should work. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2015, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-this-is-totally-going-to-kill-bring-your-clock-to-school-day/731454/525 "2015-09-21T21:27:42Z")
**SlackerInc** , you’ve gone meta-pathetic now. If you say douchebag shit, I’ll tell you why it is douchebag shit. If a bunch of assholes come and say the same shit, I am not compelled to repeat myself. Imbecile. ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2015, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-this-is-totally-going-to-kill-bring-your-clock-to-school-day/731454/526 "2015-09-21T21:29:35Z")
[Here’s the correct link](http://blogs.artvoice.com/techvoice/2015/09/17/reverse-engineering-ahmed-mohameds-clock-and-ourselves/), which is to the actual page rather than to the header of the page as **beowulf** had provided. ---
**Author:** ![Punoqllads](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d2c977/32.png) [@Punoqllads](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Punoqllads)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2015, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-this-is-totally-going-to-kill-bring-your-clock-to-school-day/731454/527 "2015-09-21T21:33:11Z")
> [@xenophon41](#): > > Yes to both. > > The device, as we’ve discussed in this thread, fits the state’s definition of a “hoax bomb” and I’m sure could reasonably be ruled to be in violation of school policy (although I’d like to see the actual policy). Post 78: > [@Enderw24](#): > > Possession of Prohibited Items > Students shall not possess or use: >  Fireworks of any kind, smoke or stink bombs, or any other pyrotechnic device; >  A razor, box cutter, chain, or any other object used in a way that threatens or inflicts > bodily injury to another person; >  A ―look-alike‖ weapon; >  An air gun or BB gun; >  Ammunition; >  A stun gun; >  A pocketknife or any other small knife, or any knife not defined as an illegal weapon; >  Mace or pepper spray; >  Pornographic material; >  Tobacco products; cigarettes; e-cigarettes; and any component, part, or accessory for an > e-cigarette device; >  Mechanical, electronic or imitation devices designed to simulate cigarettes regardless of > substance content; >  Synthetic marijuana >  Matches or a lighter; >  A laser pointer for other than an approved use; or >  Any articles not generally considered to be weapons, including school supplies, when the > principal or designee determines that a danger exists. (For weapons and firearms see > DAEP Placement and Expulsion.) > > Source: [http://www.irvingisd.net/cms/lib010/TX01917973/Centricity/Domain/1454/Irving%20ISD%20Student%20Code%20of%20Conduct%202015-2106%20English.pdf](http://www.irvingisd.net/cms/lib010/TX01917973/Centricity/Domain/1454/Irving%20ISD%20Student%20Code%20of%20Conduct%202015-2106%20English.pdf) > Page 6 ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2015, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-this-is-totally-going-to-kill-bring-your-clock-to-school-day/731454/528 "2015-09-21T21:39:38Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > I do meet the clinical definition of narcissm, but like homosexuality a half century ago, I think it’s bogus to pathologize robust self regard. The [clinical definition](http://www.dsm5.org/Documents/Personality%20Disorders%20Fact%20Sheet.pdf) of Narcissistic Personality Disorder is a long way from “robust self regard.” Light years. Parsecs. Even the [layperson’s](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissism)definition of narcissism, “the pursuit of gratification from vanity or egotistic admiration of one’s own attributes” is nowhere close to “robust self regard.” No, you’re neither a Narcissist nor a narcissist. At most, you’re just another egotistical pedant trying to find a way to justify your egotistical pedantry. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2015, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-this-is-totally-going-to-kill-bring-your-clock-to-school-day/731454/529 "2015-09-21T21:40:27Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Would this mean that a student should never bring any exposed electronics project to school? Are there not high school classes that teach electronics? How should those students complete their projects? One elective I took in high school back in the mid-80s was electricity & electronics. All projects were done in class. ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2015, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-this-is-totally-going-to-kill-bring-your-clock-to-school-day/731454/530 "2015-09-21T21:49:31Z")
> [@Punoqllads](#): > > Post 78: Ha! Thanks. That was even reposted pretty recently in the thread, too. There’s nothing I could find in the linked document, or in the school board’s policy documents, that would’ve mandated calling the police in this situation. Sharper eyes than mine might find such a mandate, but it doesn’t exactly jump out at me if it’s there. So I’ll stand by my opinion that the LEO involvement was both unusual and uncalled for and requires some explanation other than “someone could theoretically mistake Ahmed’s clock for a bomb, even though we all know it isn’t and he never said it was.” ETA: I think shop teacher’s evaluation was the right one, and that the school administration should’ve gone with a warning, counselling the student to avoid bringing personal ad hoc electronic projects to school, and let it go… ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2015, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-this-is-totally-going-to-kill-bring-your-clock-to-school-day/731454/531 "2015-09-21T21:51:58Z")
> [@Skywatcher](#): > > One elective I took in high school back in the mid-80s was electricity & electronics. All projects were done in class. What happened to them when they were finished? ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2015, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-this-is-totally-going-to-kill-bring-your-clock-to-school-day/731454/532 "2015-09-21T21:52:42Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > Frankly, i’m staggered that you can reach this conclusion. > > The kids never represented the device as anything but a clock. > > The first person he showed it to was the person probably most qualified to judge whether it was, in fact, a clock. > > That person confirmed that it was, in fact, a clock. > [@simster](#): > > How can you get #1 == true when the science/engineering teacher didnt confiscate it? You both are being disingenuous or willfully obtuse. Said teacher _told Ahmed not to show it to any other teachers!_ If no warning bells went off with this guy, and he just thought “cool, nice clock”, why would he say this? ---
**Author:** ![beowulff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beowulff/32/542_2.png) [@beowulff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beowulff)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2015, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-this-is-totally-going-to-kill-bring-your-clock-to-school-day/731454/533 "2015-09-21T21:59:56Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > You both are being disingenuous or willfully obtuse. Said teacher _told Ahmed not to show it to any other teachers!_ If no warning bells went off with this guy, and he just thought “cool, nice clock”, why would he say this? Maybe he knew that the other teachers were ignorant assholes, like you. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2015, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-this-is-totally-going-to-kill-bring-your-clock-to-school-day/731454/534 "2015-09-21T22:01:37Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > What happened to them when they were finished? Disassembled so the breadboard(s) could be used for the next project. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2015, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-this-is-totally-going-to-kill-bring-your-clock-to-school-day/731454/535 "2015-09-21T22:06:24Z")
> [@buckgully](#): > > This just in: > 8th Grader Suzy MacIntyre did not, as she has presumably claimed, construct an actual volcano from paper maché, vinegar and baking soda. SHE BUILT A BOMB! > [@mhendo](#): > > Frankly, i’m staggered that you can reach this conclusion. > > The kids never represented the device as anything but a clock. > > The first person he showed it to was the person probably most qualified to judge whether it was, in fact, a clock. > > That person confirmed that it was, in fact, a clock. > > He kept the device in his bag, rather than showing it around or leaving it in a suspicious location. > > When it beeped, and he was asked about it, he said it was a clock, and when the person most qualified to judge the device was called in, he confirmed (once again) that it was a clock, and that he had already established its clockiness earlier in the day. > > Jesus H. Christ, what more do you want? A volcano. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2015, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-this-is-totally-going-to-kill-bring-your-clock-to-school-day/731454/536 "2015-09-21T22:07:40Z")
Which of the authorities should be prosecuted for creating a false bomb scare? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2015, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-this-is-totally-going-to-kill-bring-your-clock-to-school-day/731454/537 "2015-09-21T22:08:17Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > Frankly, i’m staggered that you can reach this conclusion. > > The kids never represented the device as anything but a clock. > > The first person he showed it to was the person probably most qualified to judge whether it was, in fact, a clock. > > That person confirmed that it was, in fact, a clock. > > He kept the device in his bag, rather than showing it around or leaving it in a suspicious location. > > When it beeped, and he was asked about it, he said it was a clock, and when the person most qualified to judge the device was called in, he confirmed (once again) that it was a clock, and that he had already established its clockiness earlier in the day. > > Jesus H. Christ, what more do you want? Why would it matter what the kid said? Kids lie all the time to get out of trouble. Or, so what if he was even telling the truth, but THE THING COULD REASONABLY BE SEEN AS A FAKE BOMB. The rule doesn’t say “no fake bombs, _unless you tell us that it’s a clock_”. It’s up to the school administration to determine if a rule had been broken. If the kid thinks the rule was unjustly applied to him, he can take the administration to court. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2015, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-this-is-totally-going-to-kill-bring-your-clock-to-school-day/731454/538 "2015-09-21T22:36:39Z")
> [@andros](#): > > At most, you’re just another egotistical pedant trying to find a way to justify your egotistical pedantry. Fair enough–I’ll cop to that. But just FTR, I did not come into this thread with animus against this kid. From the beginning, I thought I made it clear that I \*identified \*with him, having also been a prankster at that age. (In fact, someone dinged me for that, with something along the lines of “just because you were like that as a teen doesn’t mean he is”.) ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2015, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-this-is-totally-going-to-kill-bring-your-clock-to-school-day/731454/539 "2015-09-21T22:38:35Z")
Are firecrackers prohibited at school? If so, best arrest all those who wear a watch or carry a cell phone. Just because something is not the norm does not mean it is reasonable to assume that it is a bomb. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2015, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-this-is-totally-going-to-kill-bring-your-clock-to-school-day/731454/540 "2015-09-21T23:11:51Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > Gotta give youth practice at getting falsely arrested in a controlled environment so once they are older and out and about on their own they will already know how to behave and not get shot when being falsely arrested. > > Folks, when comparing your USA to other first world nations, both your incarceration rate and your death-by-cop rate is off the map. In short, you are not as free as you claim to be. The treatment this lad received is a symptom of your societies’ problem. There are other first world nations? Wow. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-this-is-totally-going-to-kill-bring-your-clock-to-school-day/731454.md?page=26) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-this-is-totally-going-to-kill-bring-your-clock-to-school-day/731454.md?page=28)