I believe it has been determined to be a little over eight inches wide.
ETA: People don’t know how big bombs need to be. Also, how big is a grenade?
…yadda yadda.
So, they’re not, in fact, assertions that have been “blown apart.” Good to know, thanks.
.
Particularly when we got all het up about bombs in shoes and underwear. Size is pretty irrelevant to how scared people will be willing to get.
Yes, good point.
Unless, of course, your kid gets brought up on felony terrorism charges or a “hoax bomb” charge or whatever. And we trust the school and police to be racist enough to arrest him so we can make a big scene but we trust that they’re not racist enough to make a false statement, plant evidence or just press really hard that it was a hoax bomb with the intent to cause terror.
But, hey, maybe we’ll get to talk to a reporter so it’ll all be worth it!
And, again, any kind of activism carries risks–this one less than most. You don’t think this father opened his family up to any risk, living in the heart of red Texas, by volunteering to debate Terry Jones?
Amazingly, after it was all over (including, presumably, the family’s Disney World trip) and led to riots, he tried to find another Christian pastor who would do it again!
He also wants Muslims to know they are reading their Quran wrong:
This all sounds to me at least as risky as the clock scheme would be.
And then there’s his going on camera to agitate about…well, I confess I don’t really understand this one, but it seems to involve complaints against the Sudanese and U.S. federal governments, the state of Texas, and the local Irving government.
You are insane.
Oh for fucks’ sake now you’re just being silly to be silly. Real bombs have a red wire and a green wire. Please educate yourself before you embarrass yourself next time.
Ya. I believe it is similar to this one.
http://www.amazon.com/Vaultz-Locking-Pencil-Inches-VZ01479/dp/B001BXZ28K
About “yay” big.
I suspect you could fit a couple grenades in one of those cases, no?
So we’re back to “he’s a Muslim political activist, so he must also be a terrorist.”
Do you not get that sending the kid with a fake bomb is something far, far worse than any political activism? It’s literally terrorism. It would be putting people in fear of their lives in order to spread a political message.
There is absolutely no evidence that his father is a terrorist. But you keep asserting it. Just like you kept asserting that A.M. must’ve created a hoax bomb. Which is why your bullshit about “wanting to change the tenor of the thread” rings hollow. It’s just your way for you to try and claim victory by moving the goalposts.
We can go back and read your first post, genius. The one where you flat out say that it’s obvious that he brought in a fake bomb. That’s not trying to change the discussion. That’s saying he’s a fucking terrorist.
And you’ve kept it up ever since.
It’s hilariously ironic for anyone to accuse me of moving the goalposts. The goalposts for Ahmed have been moved so incredibly low compared to where they were originally.
Now, I have changed my position somewhat since I entered the thread, simply because I knew nothing about the father when I first posted. Changing one’s views when new information comes in is a good thing–and there are a bunch of people here who ought to try it.
And I don’t accept your definition of “terrorist”. I don’t believe for a second that he was trying to terrorize people into thinking they were going to get blown up. What I do believe is that he wanted to embarrass the school and make his son look like an innocent victim.
He won’t agree to let the school release more information. Yet this is the same guy who was eager to debate the Koran with any preacher he could find. Do we really think, if this were all on the up and up, that he would want his son to transfer to a different school? Think about it.
With all the stubborn, dug-in posters here, plus the right wing trolls who muddy the waters and polarize everything, the best I can hope for is that some intellectually honest Doper will speak up and say something like “I despise SlackerInc as much as anyone; but if we’re honest, we have to admit that Ahmed was caught lying and defying his teachers’ orders, and it’s a pretty startling coincidence that his father turned out to be a muckraker who has ginned up other controversies in the past.”
How is that remotely the same as actively sending your kid off with a fake bomb?
This activism “carries less risk than most”? Sending your Muslim kid to school with a supposedly fake bomb so you can freak out the school and police is one of the “less risky” forms of activism? :dubious:
Muffin had it right. You’re insane. Trying to play the “Gee, I’m the moderate just asking questions here” card doesn’t make it any less so.
Why would it be a “startling coincidence”? More likely that the school knew who his father was and that’s why they jumped to the assumption that the kid must be carrying a fake bomb. I do like the language “defying” though as though Ahmed was shouting “No! I will not bow to your orders to put my clock away!” rather than just beig a pretty typical 14 year old and showing it off to a friend.
I started off this thread saying that 14-year-olds definitely get up to mischief, and cited an example of my own. On the other hand, I do not ever remember, either when I was growing up or for the several years when I was a substitute teacher, a student plugging in some sort of electrical equipment they brought into the room. That takes chutzpah, even if he had not been asked to keep it in his backpack the rest of the day.
Furthermore, can anyone dispute that the kid is a hoaxer on some level? He has been invited to bring what he has called his “invention” to two prestigious events: a Google science fair and one at the White House. But we now know his “invention” is nothing of the sort, and it will be an embarrassment or a pathetic charade if he does bring it to either or both of those events.
And he must have been at the very least pulling a hoax of a more limited sort on his fellow students and his engineering teacher if he was as you say excited to show it to them. No one would care about his bringing in an old clock radio and plugging it in. If he was completely naïve and innocent as to the potential of its being seen as bomblike, then at the very least he was trying to scam them into thinking he really did design and solder together the circuitry of the clock. Academic dishonesty FTW!
Really? I do. Not that I think my experience is evidence but your lack of ever seeing it… maybe you didn’t pay enough attention to the back of the room as a substitute teacher?
I can dispute it for lack of evidence. There’s no indication that he intended to “hoax” anyone with the clock.
His engineering teacher seemed to think it was nice.
“Academic”? This wasn’t a homework assignment, it was something the kid did on his own. Or, if you’re of a particular mind, it’s something the kid did with his father to frighten racist authorities but hopefully not so much that the kid was arrested because putting their young teenage children at risk of felony charges is just what activists do. Either way, “academic” has nothing to do with it.
So you think he sincerely believes it to be his “invention”? Ouch. I give the kid more credit than that.
I, for one, am trying to keep an open mind about the hoax bomb hypothesis, which is why I’m asking questions. Was it supposed to look like a bomb when opened or closed? If closed, was it ticking? (I know an alarm went off, but that doesn’t seem bomblike.) The “pencil case” may have been big enough for two grenades, but how much room was there for hiding explosives when it was opened?
And, Slackerinc: When I inquired about the dimensions, why did you report only the largest of its 3 dimensions?
That school and police authorities may have thought it was a hoax bomb isn’t convincing. Texans aren’t very smart. The question is: Was the device intended to look like a hoax bomb? I’m undecided.
Are you reduce to flat out lying in order to “just ask questions” now ? Crazy 'phobe Terry Jones (of I burning your Koran fame) was on the radio daring anyone to come defend the Koran in his church, no doubt smugly and/or with the expectation that nobody would show up. Ahmed’s father was in the area, and showed up, because why not ?
That’s not being “eager to debate the Koran with anybody he could find”. That’s just filling a lazy Sunday morning, and maybe (maybe !) succeeding in fighting the ignorance of one or two folks in the crowd. Kinda like what we’re doing here, you know ?
As for preventing the school from releasing info : maybe, just maybe, he wants to protect his kid from right wing looneys dissecting his son’s every move ? There are rather a lot of them. And being an internet viral sensation is no fun at all. I expect everybody involved just wants it all to stop, please, stop, by now.
Yup, still a looney.
A muckraker, now, too ? Previously invovled in other controversies, plural ? You’re not even trying to hide the underbridge stench any more, are you ?
Movie bombs with digital timers always tick, I’ll have to grant you that. So most people learn to identify bombs based on what they see in the movies. In fact in the original story (appended to the end of the current story on this page, one of Ahmed’s tormentors (it’s not clear which one) said, “It looks like a movie bomb to me.”
One important feature of a bomb, is that the timer counts DOWN. On the other hand, an important feature of a clock is that the timer counts UP (except when going from 12:59 to 1:00). Bombs are designed this way so that the good guy knows how much time he has left to agonize over whether to cut the red wire or the green wire before finally choosing the right one by luck.
If Ahmed were trying to fool anyone into jumping to the conclusion that he built a bomb, I hope, at least, that he made his alarm clock count down. And I hope that the teachers and police would at least have checked.
I think he believed it to be something he made. I think you overstate it with “hoax”, picking a word that may tangentially apply but not one most people would use in that situation much like “defy”.
I was not intending to be shifty in only reporting one dimension. That was the only dimension I have read; I also thought that the general shape of it was clear enough and therefore one dimension is all we really need to get a rough idea of its size.
As for your other questions, they are good ones and I won’t pretend to know the answers. I would certainly like to know a lot more, and I will reiterate that my current odds of it being more innocent are 40%, maybe even 45% after reading your post as it makes some good points.
What bothers me the most is just dismissing any questions out of hand and acting as though they are outrageous or insane. But of course it’s been claimed that this is just my “moderate pose”, implicitly hinting at some kind of sub rosa agenda. :rolleyes:
I also think that it is important for us remember that there is no getting around the fact that Ahmed was guilty of misbehavior at school. He apparently lied about his clock at school, and definitely lied about it afterwards to the press and public. “Two wrongs do not make a right” is the maxim; a corollary I believe in is that even a significantly larger wrong (handcuffing a 14 year old boy who is clearly nonviolent and against whom you have no criminal charge you can make stick) does not magically make Ahmed’s smaller wrongs, rights.
He certainly should not be invited to take his “cool clock” to the prestigious Google or White House forums for young inventors, where he will get all the attention. That is preposterous and unfair to the other kids (some of whom, I bet, are Muslim themselves!) who have put hard work and genuine creativity into their projects.
My initial impulse was to actually take time to respond to this in detail. But you clearly couldn’t even be arsed to read the links (all from respectable news sources) or quoted material that addressed these points. Let’s just poll the crowd: are others here willing to cosign the idea that this clock kerfuffle is only the father’s second controversy? Or that he didn’t go looking for other pastors in the Irving area that might be willing to facilitate “Quran On Trial Part Deux: The Sequel”?
It’s a fair point, but let’s keep in mind that my theory of the case (of which I am 55 percent confident) is that he and/or his father certainly did not want a situation in which he would lose deniability. To make the clock count down, first of all I suspect is beyond his technical ability; secondly, it could allow him to get nailed and have no room to wriggle out, since clocks (what we all agree he maintained it was all along) don’t do that.
BTW, the people who act as though this kind of second-level thinking is incredibly convoluted, and impossible to credit to a 14 year old or his father, have–I suspect–never played poker. Second-level thinking is quite basic to poker unless you are playing the most credulous of opponents; against quality, thinking opposition you are frequently going to be operating on a third level at least. To be sure, some smart poker players outthink themselves by going a level higher than their opponents’ skill warrants, which then automatically backfires. But I’ll reiterate for the umpteenth time, albeit for the first time within this poker analogy: what Ahmed and his father put into this “pot” is not great. An old clock and a few minutes of time, and nothing of significance lost if everyone at school collectively shrugs in response to the gambit.