# RO - Wells Fargo forecloses wrong house; discards all contents **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 8, 2012, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-wells-fargo-forecloses-wrong-house-discards-all-contents/634118 "2012-09-08T20:12:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2012, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-wells-fargo-forecloses-wrong-house-discards-all-contents/634118/1 "2012-09-08T20:12:34Z")
> **[Owners Lose Possessions After Home Near Twentynine Palms Is Mistakenly...](https://www.cbsnews.com/losangeles/news/owners-lose-possessions-after-home-near-twentynine-palms-is-mistakenly-foreclosed/)** > > The owners of a modest home near Twentynine Palms lost their cherished possessions after a bank mistakenly foreclosed their residence. "The owners of a modest home near Twentynine Palms lost their cherished possessions after a bank mistakenly foreclosed their residence. A crew broke into Alvin and Pat Tjosaas’ desert home and took everything after being directed by Wells Fargo to secure the structure. The couple, however, didn’t have a mortgage on the home. Alvin said the deputy sheriff said, “Good news, we know who took (your possessions)…Wells Fargo. Bad news, your stuff is all gone.” All the married couple has now are three generations of memories." ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2012, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-wells-fargo-forecloses-wrong-house-discards-all-contents/634118/2 "2012-09-08T20:26:45Z")
> [@Andy\_L](#): > > A crew broke into Alvin and Pat Tjosaas’ desert home and took everything after being directed by Wells Fargo to secure the structure… I like how they use the euphemism “Secured”. So secured = broken into, ransacked, emptied, and the contents put…where? No short-term storage? In a dumpster? A landfill? And how bright are these “securers”? Could they not tell someone was currently residing there? What if there’d been a dog in the kitchen? Or, re-reading, maybe was this was a vacation-type home. ---
**Author:** ![voltaire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voltaire/32/313_2.png) [@voltaire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/voltaire)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2012, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-wells-fargo-forecloses-wrong-house-discards-all-contents/634118/3 "2012-09-08T21:02:18Z")
The story you link totally misses the truly heinous kicker of this story. It happened not once, [but twice.](http://abcnews.go.com/Business/wells-fargo-mistakes-home-neighboring-foreclosed-home/story?id=17185239) Yes, after the initial “clean-out” and after the owners had come to recover what they could from the aftermath three days later, and after Wells Fargo and authorities had been notified, _another contractor_ that was hired by Wells Fargo to “clean-out” the same originally-intended home made the same mistake with Wells Fargo’s satellite map/directions, and “cleaned 'em out” once again. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2012, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-wells-fargo-forecloses-wrong-house-discards-all-contents/634118/4 "2012-09-08T21:30:15Z")
On the up-side, they will have a plethora of lawyers to choose from when they sue Wells Fargo out of existance. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2012, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-wells-fargo-forecloses-wrong-house-discards-all-contents/634118/5 "2012-09-08T22:02:50Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > On the up-side, they will have a plethora of lawyers to choose from when they sue Wells Fargo out of existance. One could only dream of such an outcome and the celebration that will surely follow. Edit: And why the hell isn’t this criminal? I have a strong feeling that IF I’d done any such thing, I’d be eating jail food for a while. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2012, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-wells-fargo-forecloses-wrong-house-discards-all-contents/634118/6 "2012-09-08T22:06:51Z")
Hopefully the settlement is well into the 7 figure range. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2012, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-wells-fargo-forecloses-wrong-house-discards-all-contents/634118/7 "2012-09-08T22:15:05Z")
So, if the home owner was working nights and was asleep when the folks broke in. . .and if he awoke, startled, and grabbed his shotgun. . . ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2012, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-wells-fargo-forecloses-wrong-house-discards-all-contents/634118/8 "2012-09-08T22:15:34Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > Edit: And why the hell isn’t this criminal? I have a strong feeling that IF I’d done any such thing, I’d be eating jail food for a while. They’ve got lots of money, you don’t. Which means in plutocratic America that they are essentially aristocrats; above the law for most purposes. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2012, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-wells-fargo-forecloses-wrong-house-discards-all-contents/634118/9 "2012-09-08T22:42:17Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > They’ve got lots of money, you don’t. Which means in plutocratic America that they are essentially aristocrats; above the law for most purposes. Does anybody think Wells Fargo (or any person within the company) really did this intentionally? It’s a colossal fuckup, to be sure, but at best you could say they acted recklessly. They should pay for it in the way that hurts a company most, with money. ---
**Author:** ![al27052](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/41988e/32.png) [@al27052](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/al27052)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2012, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-wells-fargo-forecloses-wrong-house-discards-all-contents/634118/10 "2012-09-08T23:27:43Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > Does anybody think Wells Fargo (or any person within the company) really did this intentionally? It’s a colossal fuckup, to be sure, but at best you could say they acted recklessly. They should pay for it in the way that hurts a company most, with money. It was breaking and entering. That’s a criminal act. I’d _love_ to see the DA put a Wells-Fargo manager behind bars for a while. I hope this stays in the news. It will give me a warm feeling inside when I hear the large dollar amount that this couple will get from Wells-Fargo.:):):):)🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2012, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-wells-fargo-forecloses-wrong-house-discards-all-contents/634118/11 "2012-09-08T23:36:36Z")
Can you say well-deserved lawsuit in the making? ---
**Author:** ![Jamaika\_a\_jamaikaiake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7993a0/32.png) [@Jamaika\_a\_jamaikaiake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jamaika_a_jamaikaiake)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2012, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-wells-fargo-forecloses-wrong-house-discards-all-contents/634118/12 "2012-09-09T02:43:17Z")
> [@al27052](#): > > It was breaking and entering. That’s a criminal act. I’d _love_ to see the DA put a Wells-Fargo manager behind bars for a while. > > I hope this stays in the news. It will give me a warm feeling inside when I hear the large dollar amount that this couple will get from Wells-Fargo.:):):):)🙂 This is one of the reasons why corporations aren’t people: they won’t go to jail for breaking and entering. (They also don’t have consciences.) ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2012, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-wells-fargo-forecloses-wrong-house-discards-all-contents/634118/13 "2012-09-09T03:10:14Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > They’ve got lots of money, you don’t. Which means in plutocratic America that they are essentially aristocrats; above the law for most purposes. I think a jury might not feel quite that way. ---
**Author:** ![al27052](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/41988e/32.png) [@al27052](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/al27052)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2012, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-wells-fargo-forecloses-wrong-house-discards-all-contents/634118/14 "2012-09-09T03:20:10Z")
> [@Jamaika\_a\_jamaikaiake](#): > > This is one of the reasons why corporations aren’t people: they won’t go to jail for breaking and entering. (They also don’t have consciences.) It truly was a B&E, though…I don’t see how that’s not prosecutable. IANAL, though. ---
**Author:** ![voltaire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voltaire/32/313_2.png) [@voltaire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/voltaire)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2012, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-wells-fargo-forecloses-wrong-house-discards-all-contents/634118/15 "2012-09-09T03:24:36Z")
> [@al27052](#): > > It truly was a B&E, though…I don’t see how that’s not prosecutable. IANAL, though. IANAL, but it would be down to a matter of intent. Since it was a mistake, and they didn’t \*mean \*to do it, it’s not a crime. They are of course still civilly liable. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2012, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-wells-fargo-forecloses-wrong-house-discards-all-contents/634118/16 "2012-09-09T03:30:24Z")
> [@voltaire](#): > > IANAL, but it would be down to a matter of intent. Since it was a mistake, and they didn’t \*mean \*to do it, it’s not a crime. They are of course still civilly liable. Except they did intend to take possession and then dispose of items that did not belong to the bank. ---
**Author:** ![al27052](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/41988e/32.png) [@al27052](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/al27052)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2012, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-wells-fargo-forecloses-wrong-house-discards-all-contents/634118/17 "2012-09-09T03:30:33Z")
> [@voltaire](#): > > IANAL, but it would be down to a matter of intent. Since it was a mistake, and they didn’t \*mean \*to do it, it’s not a crime. They are of course still civilly liable. Ignorance is no defense, I thought. Again, IANAL.🙂 ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2012, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-wells-fargo-forecloses-wrong-house-discards-all-contents/634118/18 "2012-09-09T03:35:56Z")
So, no criminal liability because _they admittedly don’t know what the fuck they are doing_? I’m cool with that, along with a huge civil award. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2012, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-wells-fargo-forecloses-wrong-house-discards-all-contents/634118/19 "2012-09-09T03:38:43Z")
> [@runner pat](#): > > Except they did intend to take possession and then dispose of items that did not belong to the bank. This is what I don’t understand. Are they legally allowed to dispose of items that don’t belong to them? ---
**Author:** ![voltaire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voltaire/32/313_2.png) [@voltaire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/voltaire)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2012, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-wells-fargo-forecloses-wrong-house-discards-all-contents/634118/20 "2012-09-09T03:45:01Z")
> [@runner pat](#): > > Except they did intend to take possession and then dispose of items that did not belong to the bank. No, they didn’t. They intended to take possession and then dispose of items that _did_ belong to the bank. Unintentionally, they did otherwise. > [@al27052](#): > > Ignorance is no defense, I thought. Again, IANAL.🙂 That refers to ignorance of the law. They weren’t ignorant of the laws about breaking into houses, they just unintentionally broke into a house they had no right to. I do wonder about the local foreclosure laws, though. I don’t know much about such laws in general, but I was under the impression that a county sheriff generally has to be present and sign off on any forced entry and removal of tenants/contents. Is something like that not always necessary? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-wells-fargo-forecloses-wrong-house-discards-all-contents/634118.md?page=2)