# RO - Wells Fargo forecloses wrong house; discards all contents **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 8, 2012, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-wells-fargo-forecloses-wrong-house-discards-all-contents/634118 "2012-09-08T20:12:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![voltaire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voltaire/32/313_2.png) [@voltaire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/voltaire)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2012, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-wells-fargo-forecloses-wrong-house-discards-all-contents/634118/21 "2012-09-09T03:58:34Z")
^^^So, I imagine it is possible that, if they violated potential laws about proper foreclosures procedures - like having a local official present - then there might have some “intentional” crime committed. Though, the chance of that seems remote, and such crimes probably wouldn’t carry very large penalties, anyway. ---
**Author:** ![al27052](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/41988e/32.png) [@al27052](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/al27052)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2012, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-wells-fargo-forecloses-wrong-house-discards-all-contents/634118/22 "2012-09-09T04:29:10Z")
Surely there’s some way, under California law, to charge someone at Wells-Fargo with a felony that carries prison time as a penalty. They broke in, they stole stuff. If I do that, I’m going to jail. If I own a rent house, get the courts to allow me to evict the tenant, and somehow fuck up and break into the house next door, throw all their stuff away, and then say “Whoops!”, surely I’m criminally liable for the break-in. What’s the difference between a clueless landlord and a clueless bank? There’s still B&E happening. IANAL, sadly, or I’d take the civil case pro bono. There’s got to be a way to jail someone for this. Please, people, tell me there is. ---
**Author:** ![al27052](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/41988e/32.png) [@al27052](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/al27052)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2012, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-wells-fargo-forecloses-wrong-house-discards-all-contents/634118/23 "2012-09-09T04:31:05Z")
If there’s no such law, could we maybe write one and make it retroactively effective? I seem to remember that’s been found unconstitutional, but I’m just grasping at straws here. ---
**Author:** ![Autolycus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/22d042/32.png) [@Autolycus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Autolycus)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2012, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-wells-fargo-forecloses-wrong-house-discards-all-contents/634118/24 "2012-09-09T04:31:54Z")
Can we get an actual lawyer in this thread, please? ---
**Author:** ![Kenm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bc79bd/32.png) [@Kenm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kenm)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2012, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-wells-fargo-forecloses-wrong-house-discards-all-contents/634118/25 "2012-09-09T04:33:28Z")
> [@al27052](#): > > I hope this stays in the news. It will give me a warm feeling inside when I hear the large dollar amount that this couple will get from Wells-Fargo.:):):):)🙂 I doubt you’ll ever find out. I’ve searched for the results of tons of stories like that and rarely find anything because most of the time the defendants settle out of court and the plaintiffs sign non-disclosure agreements. ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2012, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-wells-fargo-forecloses-wrong-house-discards-all-contents/634118/26 "2012-09-09T04:34:48Z")
> [@voltaire](#): > > No, they didn’t. They intended to take possession and then dispose of items that _did_ belong to the bank. Unintentionally, they did otherwise. A house may belong to the bank, but contents are generally owned outright. I think the family photo albums are a bit more important than the physical structure they reside in. ---
**Author:** ![al27052](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/41988e/32.png) [@al27052](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/al27052)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2012, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-wells-fargo-forecloses-wrong-house-discards-all-contents/634118/27 "2012-09-09T04:40:02Z")
> [@Kenm](#): > > I doubt you’ll ever find out. I’ve searched for the results of tons of stories like that and rarely find anything because most of the time the defendants settle out of court and the plaintiffs sign non-disclosure agreements. Now see, we should get together a Facebook petition to give the homeowners enough money for a nice, ugly, looooong court battle. LOOOOOONNNG. FUCK non-disclosure agreements. If I were the homeowner, that would be the LAST thing I’d do. It’s an open-and-shut case. The bank would lose in court, even if their lawyer graduated from law school yesterday. The thing would be to make sure they had enough money to appeal the verdict to the highest court. We’d just need to make it worth their while, monetarily, with donations. ---
**Author:** ![Rhiannon8404](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rhiannon8404/32/17929_2.png) [@Rhiannon8404](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhiannon8404)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2012, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-wells-fargo-forecloses-wrong-house-discards-all-contents/634118/28 "2012-09-09T04:57:39Z")
> [@Ike\_Witt](#): > > A house may belong to the bank, but contents are generally owned outright. I think the family photo albums are a bit more important than the physical structure they reside in. My neighbor across the street was recently forcibly evicted after foreclosure. All of her possessions were in her home. The receiver agent guy and the sheriff’s deputy who were present both confirmed that when an owner “abandons” their home, the property and everything left in or on it belong to the bank. In my neighbor’s case, she had not really abandoned the property, she was coming back at night to water plants and check on her dogs. She’s a little nuts and I think she thought if she wasn’t there they wouldn’t do anything. She’d been given nearly 18 mos worth of notices and extension. The receiver agent gave me the dogs to care for because after he “possessed” the property, they became his and he would rather I take them than deal with animal control. She came around and got her dogs and the receiver guy actually gave her a week to clear out her stuff, but he made it very clear he was doing her a favor and that legally the stuff belonged to him. He just didn’t want to have to deal with disposing of it himself. ---
**Author:** ![Mosier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ea924/32.png) [@Mosier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mosier)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2012, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-wells-fargo-forecloses-wrong-house-discards-all-contents/634118/29 "2012-09-09T04:58:50Z")
> [@al27052](#): > > If there’s no such law, could we maybe write one and make it retroactively effective? I seem to remember that’s been found unconstitutional, but I’m just grasping at straws here. According to [this](http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/breaking+and+entering) site, absent any _intent_ to commit a crime, breaking and entering is a misdemeanor. It seems like the bank is probably very much liable in civil court for this. I doubt any prosecutor would try to find anyone criminally liable though, unless the prosecutor believed there was intent to commit a crime. ---
**Author:** ![al27052](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/41988e/32.png) [@al27052](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/al27052)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2012, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-wells-fargo-forecloses-wrong-house-discards-all-contents/634118/30 "2012-09-09T05:07:32Z")
> [@Mosier](#): > > According to [this](http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/breaking+and+entering) site, absent any _intent_ to commit a crime, breaking and entering is a misdemeanor. > > It seems like the bank is probably very much liable in civil court for this. I doubt any prosecutor would try to find anyone criminally liable though, unless the prosecutor believed there was intent to commit a crime. Misdemeanors can be punishable by jail time, though, I think. Now how could we get this prosecutor and judge to go along?😃 ---
**Author:** ![Jamaika\_a\_jamaikaiake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7993a0/32.png) [@Jamaika\_a\_jamaikaiake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jamaika_a_jamaikaiake)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2012, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-wells-fargo-forecloses-wrong-house-discards-all-contents/634118/31 "2012-09-09T05:12:44Z")
> [@al27052](#): > > It truly was a B&E, though…I don’t see how that’s not prosecutable. IANAL, though. Yeah, but a bank can’t go to jail. I admit that by bringing up Citizens United, I was hijacking a bit, but it’s amazing how absurd that shit was. ---
**Author:** ![al27052](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/41988e/32.png) [@al27052](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/al27052)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2012, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-wells-fargo-forecloses-wrong-house-discards-all-contents/634118/32 "2012-09-09T05:22:33Z")
> [@Jamaika\_a\_jamaikaiake](#): > > Yeah, but a bank can’t go to jail. Somebody authorized the break-in, though. Wouldn’t they be the guilty party, in the eyes of the law? ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2012, 7:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-wells-fargo-forecloses-wrong-house-discards-all-contents/634118/33 "2012-09-09T07:08:10Z")
It makes me sick to see all this left-wing outrage against a great Job Creator like Wells Fargo. And some of you want to put a corporation in jail? :smack: Jails are for scumbag human criminals like drug addicts, not the corporate persons who make America great. Mistakes do happen, but if you insist on recreational outrage, please direct against the lazy stupid process servers, suckling at the government teat, who made the mistake. ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2012, 7:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-wells-fargo-forecloses-wrong-house-discards-all-contents/634118/34 "2012-09-09T07:59:27Z")
> [@voltaire](#): > > No, they didn’t. They intended to take possession and then dispose of items that _did_ belong to the bank. I don’t think that’s strictly true, though. Because their process for verifying the property belonged to the bank failed not once, but twice – and the first time was such a cataclysmic fuckup that the second time is unfathomable if we assume they actually care very much about other people’s property. So I would characterize it more like “They intended to take possession and then dispose of items _whether or not_ they belonged to the bank.” Because “taking possession of stuff” seems to have completely trumped their sense of what-belongs-to-whom. ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2012, 10:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-wells-fargo-forecloses-wrong-house-discards-all-contents/634118/35 "2012-09-09T10:03:17Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > Does anybody think Wells Fargo (or any person within the company) really did this intentionally? It’s a colossal fuckup, to be sure, but at best you could say they acted recklessly. They should pay for it in the way that hurts a company most, with money. > [@Sailboat](#): > > I don’t think that’s strictly true, though. Because their process for verifying the property belonged to the bank failed not once, but twice – and the first time was such a cataclysmic fuckup that the second time is unfathomable if we assume they actually care very much about other people’s property. > > So I would characterize it more like “They intended to take possession and then dispose of items _whether or not_ they belonged to the bank.” > > Because “taking possession of stuff” seems to have completely trumped their sense of what-belongs-to-whom. I am also bothered by the fact that two separate contractors failed in the same way. If one contractor had somehow managed to get to the wrong house, then my WAG would be that it’s the contractor at fault. But if two contractors make the same mistake using the same information, then my opinion swings around to believing that the provided information is false or misleading. WF might very well not have INTENDED for this couple’s home to be broken into and their possessions trashed. But I think that they have a duty to make sure that their contractors are given clear accurate instructions, and I also think that maybe they shouldn’t be allowed to dispose of random possessions immediately. I think that they need to pay a very stiff judgement to the couple, and they should also have restrictions placed on their operations. That is, they’d have to have someone oversee their foreclosures, because obviously they are incapable of doing it themselves, or hiring it done on their behalf. ---
**Author:** ![Foggy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foggy/32/1082_2.png) [@Foggy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Foggy)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2012, 10:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-wells-fargo-forecloses-wrong-house-discards-all-contents/634118/36 "2012-09-09T10:13:18Z")
> [@](#): > > The Tjosaases said a representative from Wells Fargo came Thursday morning to issue an official apology in person. There is a job that I would never want, having to apologize for a major fuck-up like this. I know you should never read the comments on news stories, but this one: > [@](#): > > The Tjosaas should be happy they live in the only democracy in the world. If they were anywhere else they’d be shot to death for complaining like that. It amazes how ungrateful many “Americans” are. :eek: Now that I think about it the Tjosaas should take some responsibility for what happen. I mean if you are going to own real estate near others, you have to expect that these fuck-ups will happen from time to time. Should have built the home in a better neighborhood.\* \*Joke - see this [thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=664666) ---
**Author:** ![Trion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ccd318/32.png) [@Trion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trion)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2012, 12:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-wells-fargo-forecloses-wrong-house-discards-all-contents/634118/37 "2012-09-09T12:03:52Z")
What about Criminal Negligance as a charge? ---
**Author:** ![Jamaika\_a\_jamaikaiake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7993a0/32.png) [@Jamaika\_a\_jamaikaiake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jamaika_a_jamaikaiake)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2012, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-wells-fargo-forecloses-wrong-house-discards-all-contents/634118/38 "2012-09-09T13:11:19Z")
> [@al27052](#): > > Somebody authorized the break-in, though. Wouldn’t they be the guilty party, in the eyes of the law? Hopefully. (Again, I was making a snarky hijack about Citizens United: A bank took my shit, but you can’t arrest a bank.) I hope that they find the manager whose signature authorized this and pursue criminal charges. Not because I seek vengeance against said manager, but because I’d like to be able to expect _criminal_ liability when an organization fucks over an individual. ---
**Author:** ![Mosier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ea924/32.png) [@Mosier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mosier)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2012, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-wells-fargo-forecloses-wrong-house-discards-all-contents/634118/39 "2012-09-09T13:24:37Z")
> [@Jamaika\_a\_jamaikaiake](#): > > Hopefully. (Again, I was making a snarky hijack about Citizens United: A bank took my shit, but you can’t arrest a bank.) > > I hope that they find the manager whose signature authorized this and pursue criminal charges. Not because I seek vengeance against said manager, but because I’d like to be able to expect _criminal_ liability when an organization fucks over an individual. Civil liability is perfectly adequate in my opinion. Wells Fargo is going to end up much more “fucked over” than the individuals who own the home, which is how it should be. ---
**Author:** ![Szlater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/90ced4/32.png) [@Szlater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Szlater)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2012, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-wells-fargo-forecloses-wrong-house-discards-all-contents/634118/40 "2012-09-09T13:37:23Z")
Wells Fargo took all their stuff, so I think it only fair that they get all Wells Fargo’s stuff… Every share, stock, penny and property. How’d they like them apples? If corporations faced actual consequences for their actions instead of just woefully small financial penalties then they might start acting in a way that isn’t so antisocial… Because as it stands any penalty that a corporation faces can be shrugged off. Wouldn’t surprise me if Wells Fargo drag any court case out for years, just so that they can force the family to settle. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-wells-fargo-forecloses-wrong-house-discards-all-contents/634118.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-wells-fargo-forecloses-wrong-house-discards-all-contents/634118.md?page=3)