# RO - Wells Fargo forecloses wrong house; discards all contents **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 8, 2012, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-wells-fargo-forecloses-wrong-house-discards-all-contents/634118 "2012-09-08T20:12:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2012, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-wells-fargo-forecloses-wrong-house-discards-all-contents/634118/41 "2012-09-09T13:53:24Z")
> [@Szlater](#): > > Wouldn’t surprise me if Wells Fargo drag any court case out for years, just so that they can force the family to settle. These days that tactic can backfire spectacularly. A couple of Facebook mentions, a few notices dropped to local reporters, and Wells Fargo gets millions in negative publicity. Better to pay them off quickly to make it go away. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2012, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-wells-fargo-forecloses-wrong-house-discards-all-contents/634118/42 "2012-09-09T13:53:34Z")
> [@al27052](#): > > If there’s no such law, could we maybe write one and make it retroactively effective? I seem to remember that’s been found unconstitutional, but I’m just grasping at straws here. Yeah, [ex-post facto laws](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ex_post_facto_law) are a huge no-no in most every legal system (at least, when they are detrimental to the accused), for rather obvious reasons. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2012, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-wells-fargo-forecloses-wrong-house-discards-all-contents/634118/43 "2012-09-09T14:02:41Z")
> [@Szlater](#): > > Wouldn’t surprise me if Wells Fargo drag any court case out for years, just so that they can force the family to settle. Sounds a lot like sheriff Joe Arpaio in Arizona, I have seen many claiming that he is not doing anything wrong as he as not been indicted (they may had a point in the sense that all those settlements out of court for abuses of power are paid not by Joe but by the state of Arizona). Indeed, the solution many of those in power that are abusive is to drag it in court and force a settlement, with the perpetrator usually denying any wrongdoing. The good news is that as the media is on it, that settlement will not be cheap for Wells Fargo. ---
**Author:** ![flodnak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/838e76/32.png) [@flodnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flodnak)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2012, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-wells-fargo-forecloses-wrong-house-discards-all-contents/634118/44 "2012-09-09T14:06:16Z")
> [@Mosier](#): > > Civil liability is perfectly adequate in my opinion. Wells Fargo is going to end up much more “fucked over” than the individuals who own the home, which is how it should be. Wells Fargo is still going to be one of the largest banks in the United States. The couple who own the home are still going to be lacking their photos and other personal belongings that cannot be replaced easily if at all. I don’t see how this can end up with Wells Fargo hurting more than the Tjosaases. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2012, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-wells-fargo-forecloses-wrong-house-discards-all-contents/634118/45 "2012-09-09T14:45:09Z")
> [@al27052](#): > > If there’s no such law, could we maybe write one and make it retroactively effective? I seem to remember that’s been found unconstitutional, but I’m just grasping at straws here. Jesus the Christ. You really need to stop embarrassing yourself. Your posts are in this thread are unbelievable. How hard is it to comprehend that unless someone intended to screw over that poor couple, nothing criminal happened here? > [@al87052](#): > > Now see, we should get together a Facebook petition to give the homeowners enough money for a nice, ugly, looooong court battle. LOOOOOONNNG. FUCK non-disclosure agreements. If I were the homeowner, that would be the LAST thing I’d do. It’s an open-and-shut case. The bank would lose in court, even if their lawyer graduated from law school yesterday. The thing would be to make sure they had enough money to appeal the verdict to the highest court. We’d just need to make it worth their while, monetarily, with donations. Do you really think that this is possible? You really need to study up on how shit works. There has to be grounds to appeal. There is no new law being decided here. If WF makes a reasonable offer, it’s all over. Wells Fargo screwed up and did so badly and should pay this couple a lot of money but only what the stuff is worth and a big penalty on top of that for negligence. This is one of those things where there wasn’t one person responsible. It was a series of mistakes that led to a giant cluster fuck. They need to figure out how this happened and devise a way such that something like this never happens again. End of story. WF took the blame immediately and is attempting to make an offer. It was a horrible, horrible mistake but they, at least initially, seem to be doing the right thing to fix it. ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2012, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-wells-fargo-forecloses-wrong-house-discards-all-contents/634118/46 "2012-09-09T14:58:01Z")
> [@flodnak](#): > > Wells Fargo is still going to be one of the largest banks in the United States. The couple who own the home are still going to be lacking their photos and other personal belongings that cannot be replaced easily if at all. I don’t see how this can end up with Wells Fargo hurting more than the Tjosaases. For me, and I suspect many people, there is a figure that could make up for losing all my personal belongings. I mean, if someone showed up at my door and offered my family a check for, say, $50 million, to walk away from every single thing we owned, I’d take that in a heartbeat. Things are important, but they are just things. Hell, I’d do it for a $1 million, and think I came out ahead in the deal. ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2012, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-wells-fargo-forecloses-wrong-house-discards-all-contents/634118/47 "2012-09-09T15:10:19Z")
> [@voltaire](#): > > IANAL, but it would be down to a matter of intent. Since it was a mistake, and they didn’t \*mean \*to do it, it’s not a crime. They are of course still civilly liable. > [@hajario](#): > > How hard is it to comprehend that unless someone intended to screw over that poor couple, nothing criminal happened here? IANAL either. I don’t know if any crime was committed in this case. But I’m pretty sure a crime can be committed even without a specific “intention” to screw those people over–there are such things as “criminal negligence” and “reckless conduct”. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2012, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-wells-fargo-forecloses-wrong-house-discards-all-contents/634118/48 "2012-09-09T15:21:54Z")
> [@MandaJo](#): > > I mean, if someone showed up at my door and offered my family a check for, say, $50 million, to walk away from every single thing we owned, I’d take that in a heartbeat. 🆒 One hopes the family gets at least a few million. But whatever they get, it’ll probably be less than the Golden Parachute the bigshot rolled-head at Wells Fargo gets for _making_ the blunder, even assuming a head rolls. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2012, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-wells-fargo-forecloses-wrong-house-discards-all-contents/634118/49 "2012-09-09T15:24:19Z")
> [@MEBuckner](#): > > IANAL either. I don’t know if any crime was committed in this case. But I’m pretty sure a crime can be committed even without a specific “intention” to screw those people over–there are such things as “criminal negligence” and “reckless conduct”. Yes. If this exact sort of thing happened regularly or if one person saw the mistake and said, “screw it. I’m not going to fix it. I don’t want to stay late tonight.” That doesn’t seem to be the case here. A tragic thing happened one time and most likely it wasn’t one single person’s fault. Of course some people think that because a mistake was made the entire corporation should be liquidated and over 250,000 innocent people should be put out of work. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2012, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-wells-fargo-forecloses-wrong-house-discards-all-contents/634118/50 "2012-09-09T15:26:53Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > 🆒 One hopes the family gets at least a few million. But whatever they get, it’ll probably be less than the Golden Parachute the bigshot rolled-head at Wells Fargo gets for _making_ the blunder, even assuming a head rolls. A couple million seems about right to me. It’s very unlikely that a corporate fat cat was anywhere near this. It was probably an inattentive low level clerk or two that started the ball rolling. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2012, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-wells-fargo-forecloses-wrong-house-discards-all-contents/634118/51 "2012-09-09T15:29:24Z")
I call it the Bhopal Slow Mo, the time between when an award is made in such a case, and the day when the first check is actually cashed. Twelve parsecs is optimistic. ---
**Author:** ![Szlater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/90ced4/32.png) [@Szlater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Szlater)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2012, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-wells-fargo-forecloses-wrong-house-discards-all-contents/634118/52 "2012-09-09T15:31:51Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > Of course some people think that because a mistake was made the entire corporation should be liquidated and over 250,000 innocent people should be put out of work. Nah, those 250,000 people now just have new bosses. Shareholders, on the other hand, fuck those guys. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2012, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-wells-fargo-forecloses-wrong-house-discards-all-contents/634118/53 "2012-09-09T15:32:52Z")
A parsec is a unit of distance. WF is taking full responsibility. I bet that this is settled within a year unless the couple gets ridiculous and asks for a billion dollars or something and I see no indication they will do that. ---
**Author:** ![Bouncer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9d8465/32.png) [@Bouncer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bouncer)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2012, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-wells-fargo-forecloses-wrong-house-discards-all-contents/634118/54 "2012-09-09T16:11:47Z")
> [@flodnak](#): > > Wells Fargo is still going to be one of the largest banks in the United States. The couple who own the home are still going to be lacking their photos and other personal belongings that cannot be replaced easily if at all. I don’t see how this can end up with Wells Fargo hurting more than the Tjosaases. Very good point. I’m not normally an eye for an eye, but in this case, I think it appropriate that the couple be allowed to have the contents of the homes of the board of directors of Wells Fargo, family photos and all. You’d be properly amazed how fast Wells Fargo (and pretty much every other major bank) foreclosure/property policy would change if that were to occur. All it would probably take is one or maybe two times. Just like the couple suffered. Regards, -Bouncer- PS: And if the CEO etc want to appeal the ruling, they are immediately evicted and locked out of their property until the ruling makes it way ALL THE WAY to the supreme court. In fact, evict them first without posessions, and THEN notify them of the decision. Wouldn’t want them sneaking back in to steal valuables now owned by this couple. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2012, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-wells-fargo-forecloses-wrong-house-discards-all-contents/634118/55 "2012-09-09T16:15:20Z")
> [@Bouncer](#): > > Very good point. I’m not normally an eye for an eye, but in this case, I think it appropriate that the couple be allowed to have the contents of the homes of the board of directors of Wells Fargo, family photos and all. You honestly think that the Board of Directors should be punished because one clerk out of over a quarter of a million employees made a mistake and probably didn’t follow policy? It’s not like they were aware of it and allowed it to happen anyway. (If that was the case I would change my mind.) You seriously are lacking in a sense of perspective. ---
**Author:** ![AlienVessels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ba8739/32.png) [@AlienVessels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlienVessels)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2012, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-wells-fargo-forecloses-wrong-house-discards-all-contents/634118/56 "2012-09-09T16:15:42Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > A couple million seems about right to me. It’s very unlikely that a corporate fat cat was anywhere near this. It was probably an inattentive low level clerk or two that started the ball rolling. It was probably already calculated by corporate actuaries as to how much a policy making sure this kind of thing wouldn’t happen and how much they’d actually have to pay out in real court costs. I doubt very much a couple million would be acceptable by WF to pay off a bunch of used furniture and moving costs. It would probably be cheaper to fight establishing a precedent and let the victims try to lay legal seige. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2012, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-wells-fargo-forecloses-wrong-house-discards-all-contents/634118/57 "2012-09-09T16:22:01Z")
> [@AlienVessels](#): > > It was probably already calculated by corporate actuaries as to how much a policy making sure this kind of thing wouldn’t happen and how much they’d actually have to pay out in real court costs. Doubtful. It doesn’t work that way. That whole Pinto thing in the 70’s did away with that line of thinking. It was a fuck-up by a couple of low level people. > [@](#): > > I doubt very much a couple million would be acceptable by WF to pay off a bunch of used furniture and moving costs. It would probably be cheaper to fight establishing a precedent and let the victims try to lay legal seige. Bullshit. This will be very unlikely to see a courtroom. WF’s lawyers are smart enough to know to pay them what will be an undisclosed settlement. If anyone needs to be punished, then it’s the employee who fucked up. They need to be fired and if anyone’s heirlooms are to be taken, it’s the employee’s. ---
**Author:** ![Bouncer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9d8465/32.png) [@Bouncer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bouncer)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2012, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-wells-fargo-forecloses-wrong-house-discards-all-contents/634118/58 "2012-09-09T16:22:43Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > I call it the Bhopal Slow Mo, the time between when an award is made in such a case, and the day when the first check is actually cashed. Twelve parsecs is optimistic. I always love your turn of phrases, you are definitely a wordsmith. However, in the US, you do have some recourse, like seizing all of Bank of America’s furniture and cash on hand. > **[Fla. Couple Ready to Seize Bank of America Furniture After Winning...](https://www.abajournal.com/news/article/fla._couple_ready_to_seize_bank_of_american_furniture_after_winning_foreclo/)** > > The ABA Journal is read by half of the nation's 1 million lawyers every month. It covers the trends, people and finances of the legal profession from Wall Street to Main Street to Pennsylvania Avenue. If Banks is peeps, then we oughta be able to seize their shit too. N’stuff. Be amazed how fast they come up with the cheddah when the po-po come through the corporate HQ door. Regards, -Bouncer- ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2012, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-wells-fargo-forecloses-wrong-house-discards-all-contents/634118/59 "2012-09-09T16:24:23Z")
> [@Bouncer](#): > > I always love your turn of phrases, you are definitely a wordsmith. However, in the US, you do have some recourse, like seizing all of Bank of America’s furniture and cash on hand. > > [Fla. Couple Ready to Seize Bank of America Furniture After Winning Foreclosure Fight](http://www.abajournal.com/news/article/fla._couple_ready_to_seize_bank_of_american_furniture_after_winning_foreclo/) Now that was righteous. Totally agree with what happened in that case. ---
**Author:** ![colonial](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/34f0e0/32.png) [@colonial](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/colonial)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2012, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-wells-fargo-forecloses-wrong-house-discards-all-contents/634118/60 "2012-09-09T16:40:31Z")
Warren Buffett if Wells Fargo’s largest shareholder, with a 7.7% stake: [Buffett & Wells Fargo](http://blogs.rhsmith.umd.edu/davidkass/uncategorized/why-warren-buffett-keeps-adding-to-his-wells-fargo-investment/) Anyone besides me think it would be sending a worthwhile message to the pigs of corporate America if as a result of this fiasco Buffett got a couple of days and nights in the slammer? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-wells-fargo-forecloses-wrong-house-discards-all-contents/634118.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-wells-fargo-forecloses-wrong-house-discards-all-contents/634118.md?page=4)