# RO - Wells Fargo forecloses wrong house; discards all contents **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 8, 2012, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-wells-fargo-forecloses-wrong-house-discards-all-contents/634118 "2012-09-08T20:12:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2012, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-wells-fargo-forecloses-wrong-house-discards-all-contents/634118/61 "2012-09-09T16:45:25Z")
> [@colonial](#): > > Warren Buffett if Wells Fargo’s largest shareholder, with a 7.7% stake: > > [Buffett & Wells Fargo](http://blogs.rhsmith.umd.edu/davidkass/uncategorized/why-warren-buffett-keeps-adding-to-his-wells-fargo-investment/) > > Anyone besides me think it would be sending a worthwhile message > to the pigs of corporate America if as a result of this fiasco Buffett > got a couple of days and nights in the slammer? Now we are totally through the looking glass. How is it Buffett’s fault? ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2012, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-wells-fargo-forecloses-wrong-house-discards-all-contents/634118/62 "2012-09-09T16:52:28Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > It’s very unlikely that a corporate fat cat was anywhere near this. It was probably an inattentive low level clerk or two that started the ball rolling. The specific mistake was by a flunky, yes. But I’ll bet there’s a trail of memos from on-high like " … We need to cut costs in our Foreclosure Checking Unit … Don’t worry about litigation, we’ve got a hot hungry team of lawyers … Just remind those sheriffs where their campaign contributions came from …" (Much more subtle than this, of course, but you get my point.) Dick Cheney didn’t personally take the funny photos at Abu Ghraib. Do you think Bush’s Cabinet is therefore absolved? ---
**Author:** ![colonial](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/34f0e0/32.png) [@colonial](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/colonial)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2012, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-wells-fargo-forecloses-wrong-house-discards-all-contents/634118/63 "2012-09-09T17:00:53Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > Now we are totally through the looking glass. How is it Buffett’s fault? Google “vicarious liability”. The doctrine as now enforced makes it unlikely to impossible that a CEO will actually get time for anything short of personal fraud. That needs to be changed. ---
**Author:** ![Bouncer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9d8465/32.png) [@Bouncer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bouncer)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2012, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-wells-fargo-forecloses-wrong-house-discards-all-contents/634118/64 "2012-09-09T17:01:52Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > You honestly think that the Board of Directors should be punished because one clerk out of over a quarter of a million employees made a mistake and probably didn’t follow policy? It’s not like they were aware of it and allowed it to happen anyway. (If that was the case I would change my mind.) You seriously are lacking in a sense of perspective. I think that CEO’s, and personalities like Rush Limbaugh, suddenly learn the value of compassion when it’s them that is facing the consequences of their own policies. I think the policy would change quickly to some sort of 30-day storage of effects before disposal, and that would have mitigated this entire issue. But see, none of that policy change is likely to occur unless the CEO and BoD feel a little pain themselves. So they’ll lose millions of dollars to this couple, and millions more to other people this is happening to, and they won’t see any reason not to destroy three generations of memories. Because the consequences of their decisions never, ever touch them. It would be wonderful if it did though. Regards, -Bouncer- ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2012, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-wells-fargo-forecloses-wrong-house-discards-all-contents/634118/65 "2012-09-09T17:04:18Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > The specific mistake was by a flunky, yes. But I’ll bet there’s a trail of memos from on-high like " … We need to cut costs in our Foreclosure Checking Unit … Don’t worry about litigation, we’ve got a hot hungry team of lawyers … Just remind those sheriffs where their campaign contributions came from …" (Much more subtle than this, of course, but you get my point.) Bullshit. There is no pattern of this specific type of abuse. If the wrong home was stripped as a regular thing by Wells Fargo or if WF was denying fault in this case, I would totally agree with you. A tragic chain of mistakes happened _once_ out of hundreds of thousands of foreclosures. Certainly more information could come to light that would change my opinion but for now, I’m not buying it. > [@](#): > > Dick Cheney didn’t personally take the funny photos at Abu Ghraib. Do you think Bush’s Cabinet is therefore absolved? Wells Fargo does not have a policy of purposefully foreclosing on the wrong home. ---
**Author:** ![Patch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a183cd/32.png) [@Patch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Patch)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2012, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-wells-fargo-forecloses-wrong-house-discards-all-contents/634118/66 "2012-09-09T17:06:18Z")
> [@Bouncer](#): > > I always love your turn of phrases, you are definitely a wordsmith. However, in the US, you do have some recourse, like seizing all of Bank of America’s furniture and cash on hand. > > [Fla. Couple Ready to Seize Bank of America Furniture After Winning Foreclosure Fight](http://www.abajournal.com/news/article/fla._couple_ready_to_seize_bank_of_american_furniture_after_winning_foreclo/) > > If Banks is peeps, then we oughta be able to seize their shit too. N’stuff. Be amazed how fast they come up with the cheddah when the po-po come through the corporate HQ door. > > Regards, > -Bouncer- [I saw that on the TV news](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXdZ94rctTA). It was beautiful. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2012, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-wells-fargo-forecloses-wrong-house-discards-all-contents/634118/67 "2012-09-09T17:08:22Z")
> [@Bouncer](#): > > I think that CEO’s, and personalities like Rush Limbaugh, suddenly learn the value of compassion when it’s them that is facing the consequences of their own policies. I think the policy would change quickly to some sort of 30-day storage of effects before disposal, and that would have mitigated this entire issue. That’s a good idea. I think that policy will quickly change in some way now that this has happened for the first time. > [@](#): > > But see, none of that policy change is likely to occur unless the CEO and BoD feel a little pain themselves. So they’ll lose millions of dollars to this couple, and millions more to other people this is happening to, and they won’t see any reason not to destroy three generations of memories. Because the consequences of their decisions never, ever touch them. It would be wonderful if it did though. It hasn’t happened to someone else and I hope that it won’t. No one expected it to happen. Now that they see that it can, they need to make a change. If they don’t make a change _and_ it happens again, then I am more on board. ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2012, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-wells-fargo-forecloses-wrong-house-discards-all-contents/634118/68 "2012-09-09T17:31:08Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > Bullshit. There is no pattern of this specific type of abuse. If the wrong home was stripped as a regular thing by Wells Fargo or if WF was denying fault in this case, I would totally agree with you. A tragic chain of mistakes happened _once_ out of hundreds of thousands of foreclosures. Certainly more information could come to light that would change my opinion but for now, I’m not buying it. > > Wells Fargo does not have a policy of purposefully foreclosing on the wrong home. But it didn’t happen ONCE. It happened TWICE, to the same couple, with two different contractors from WF. So this is a start to a pattern. Or possibly, this is part of a pattern that hasn’t come to public attention. I’d want someone to take a long hard look at all of WF’s foreclosures in the past couple of years, and see how many were righteous, and how many were oopsies. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2012, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-wells-fargo-forecloses-wrong-house-discards-all-contents/634118/69 "2012-09-09T17:45:53Z")
> [@Lynn\_Bodoni](#): > > But it didn’t happen ONCE. It happened TWICE, to the same couple, with two different contractors from WF. So this is a start to a pattern. Or possibly, this is part of a pattern that hasn’t come to public attention. I’d want someone to take a long hard look at all of WF’s foreclosures in the past couple of years, and see how many were righteous, and how many were oopsies. Clearly this can’t happen again. Clearly they need to audit their procedure. It’s hard to get good information on what happened here but it appears that the contractors got ambiguous paperwork and that there was some GPS fail involved like the address was correct but the picture entered into Google Earth showed a picture of the wrong house with the wrong coordinates or something. There is _a lot_ of speculation on my part here but I am basing this on the couple of articles that I read that weren’t very informative. The first time they thought that the contractor screwed up and so they hired another one. They looked at the paperwork and the address was correct so it was a reasonable assumption to make. They hired a second contractor who did the same thing and they realized that it was their mistake. Now they know not to trust Google Earth, especially if the house is in the sticks. ONE mistake compounded. If this has happened regularly and we don’t know it yet, I will change my tune. ---
**Author:** ![Enkel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/df705f/32.png) [@Enkel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enkel)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2012, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-wells-fargo-forecloses-wrong-house-discards-all-contents/634118/70 "2012-09-09T17:47:21Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > It hasn’t happened to someone else and I hope that it won’t. No one expected it to happen. Now that they see that it can, they need to make a change. If they don’t make a change _and_ it happens again, then I am more on board. It has happened to several people all over the US: [Google Search](https://www.google.com/search?q=foreclosed+wrong+house&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a) ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2012, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-wells-fargo-forecloses-wrong-house-discards-all-contents/634118/71 "2012-09-09T18:01:49Z")
> [@Enkel](#): > > It has happened to several people all over the US: [Google Search](https://www.google.com/search?q=foreclosed+wrong+house&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a) The first three pages of Google hits are mostly for the case that we are discussing here. There is one where someone was sold the wrong home that was correctly foreclosed and was the fault of a realtor. There is one more involving Bank of America and it was the contractor who went to the wrong house but had correct paperwork. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2012, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-wells-fargo-forecloses-wrong-house-discards-all-contents/634118/72 "2012-09-09T18:09:24Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > Of course some people think that because a mistake was made the entire corporation should be liquidated and over 250,000 innocent people should be put out of work. And some people think there should be sufficient penalty that it doesn’t happen again. Or twice again. What will it take for Wells Fargo to be sufficiently penalized that the next foreclosure order is checked or monitored? What will hurt them enough that they will exert a minimum of care? There do not seem to be _any_ safeguards in place for such a serious matter. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2012, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-wells-fargo-forecloses-wrong-house-discards-all-contents/634118/73 "2012-09-09T18:18:17Z")
> [@al27052](#): > > It was breaking and entering. That’s a criminal act. I’d _love_ to see the DA put a Wells-Fargo manager behind bars for a while. > > I hope this stays in the news. It will give me a warm feeling inside when I hear the large dollar amount that this couple will get from Wells-Fargo.:):):):)🙂 Laws are very specific and need to be. In most criminal statutes intent is an important element of the crime. All elements must be present in order for their to be a crime. In this case it appears they had a legal foreclosure order. There was no intent to break into a house illegally. No amount of RO will change that. > [@MEBuckner](#): > > IANAL either. I don’t know if any crime was committed in this case. But I’m pretty sure a crime can be committed even without a specific “intention” to screw those people over–there are such things as “criminal negligence” and “reckless conduct”. Negligence and recklessness can be elements to a crime. Not to all crimes. Show me a statute in which you can negligently break into a house. People keep talking about liability and in the same breath talk about crimes. The reading the confusing mix of civil law, criminal law and outrage makes this a painful thread to read. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2012, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-wells-fargo-forecloses-wrong-house-discards-all-contents/634118/74 "2012-09-09T18:42:54Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > You honestly think that the Board of Directors should be punished because one clerk out of over a quarter of a million employees made a mistake and probably didn’t follow policy? It’s not like they were aware of it and allowed it to happen anyway. (If that was the case I would change my mind.) You seriously are lacking in a sense of perspective. Well, I once won a small claims court case against a multi-millionaire for $500. He refused to pay. When I went to the court and obtained a court order to seize his limo (all perfectly legal), that got his attention and he paid very quickly. So maybe something drastic needs to be done to get their attention. ---
**Author:** ![Tangent](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tangent/32/3098_2.png) [@Tangent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tangent)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2012, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-wells-fargo-forecloses-wrong-house-discards-all-contents/634118/75 "2012-09-09T18:45:38Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > A parsec is a unit of distance. This is all George Lucas’s fault. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Dendarii\_Dame](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/bbce88/32.png) [@Dendarii\_Dame](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dendarii_Dame)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2012, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-wells-fargo-forecloses-wrong-house-discards-all-contents/634118/76 "2012-09-09T18:53:23Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > Well, I once won a small claims court case against a multi-millionaire for $500. He refused to pay. > > When I went to the court and obtained a court order to seize his limo (all perfectly legal), that got his attention and he paid very quickly. > > So maybe something drastic needs to be done to get their attention. Details, please. (If that would be thread-jacking, would you start a new thread?) ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2012, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-wells-fargo-forecloses-wrong-house-discards-all-contents/634118/77 "2012-09-09T19:07:19Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > And some people think there should be sufficient penalty that it doesn’t happen again. Or twice again. > > What will it take for Wells Fargo to be sufficiently penalized that the next foreclosure order is checked or monitored? What will hurt them enough that they will exert a minimum of care? There do not seem to be _any_ safeguards in place for such a serious matter. Agreed. Upthread I said a couple of million dollars. Are you including me in the people who think there shouldn’t be a sufficient penalty because if so it is totally without merit. If my speculation above is correct, effective immediately internet GPS can’t be used any more for pictures of the house. An employee must drive out there and personally take the picture and it has to be double checked. > [@Musicat](#): > > Well, I once won a small claims court case against a multi-millionaire for $500. He refused to pay. > > When I went to the court and obtained a court order to seize his limo (all perfectly legal), that got his attention and he paid very quickly. > > So maybe something drastic needs to be done to get their attention. There attention was gotten. They are trying to settle. And good for you on the limo guy. Totally deserved. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2012, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-wells-fargo-forecloses-wrong-house-discards-all-contents/634118/78 "2012-09-09T19:25:17Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > There attention was gotten. They are trying to settle. > > . _Their_ goddammit ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2012, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-wells-fargo-forecloses-wrong-house-discards-all-contents/634118/79 "2012-09-09T19:50:59Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > A parsec is a unit of distance. When at lightspeed, distance is time and time is distance. Seeing as how a parsec is 3.26 lightyears, 12 parsecs would be 39.12 years. Seeing as how it took 28 years to get a settlement in the Bhopal disaster, I could see measuring very long cases in parsecs. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2012, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-wells-fargo-forecloses-wrong-house-discards-all-contents/634118/80 "2012-09-09T20:08:05Z")
> [@asterion](#): > > When at lightspeed, distance is time and time is distance. Seeing as how a parsec is 3.26 lightyears, 12 parsecs would be 39.12 years. Seeing as how it took 28 years to get a settlement in the Bhopal disaster, I could see measuring very long cases in parsecs. I stand corrected. That was a very accurate estimation. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-wells-fargo-forecloses-wrong-house-discards-all-contents/634118.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ro-wells-fargo-forecloses-wrong-house-discards-all-contents/634118.md?page=5)