I think he is suggesting that a garage full of used tools could be surprisingly expensive to replace.
That’s how I read it, anyway.
We’re not talking about replacement value, though. We’re talking about the actual value of the tools that were taken or destroyed. Considering that they belonged to a guy who has been dead a while, they are probably pretty useless. I helped my wife clear out her uncle’s house after he died, which contained a garage full of her grandfather’s tools. Guess what? They were worthless (though I kept a few because they were cool).
Are you claiming your wife’s uncle’s grandfather’s tools are representative of Rick’s tools?
No, but they’re probably an awful lot more representative of another dead guy’s tools. Having not met Rick’s tools, I can’t rightly say what they’re worth.
I don’t think it’s a matter of not caring. I have the suspicion that some “trashers” would be more eager to “clean-out” such a house, since there were lots of fringe benefits to be found within - if you catch my drift.
Perhaps that’s something that **Faruiza **can discuss the likelihood of if he does an “Ask the” thread.
How the fuck did you come up with that? Nice user name post combo.
Ding! We have a winner. Exactly. Tools can be stupid expensive.
Ooh, ooh, I’ll play. OK let’s talk tools and depreciation. Pray tell what is the depreciation schedule for a hammer? I can’t seem to find that in the IRS schedules anywhere.
Now let’s talk about some of my tools. Take 3/8" sockets for example. I have 22 SAE 3/8" sockets (11 shallow and 11 deep). I bought these when I was first in the auto repair business (40 years ago for those keeping score). I bought them ala carte as I didn’t want to go into debt. At the time I bought them they were about $1 each for the shallows, and a bit more for the deeps, let’s call it $30 for the 22 sockets. Here is that same set today. $397 dollars for the same 22 sockets.
Now are my sockets as useable as brand new ones? Yup. Scratched, and some dirt and grease in the corners, but just as serviceable. If they were stolen today, what would it cost me to replace them? $397 + tax.
I believe what I have here is an appreciating asset. 
from the link I posted earlier
OK, we are going to replumb a house.
Need a sabre saw to cut the old pipe up with and a drill to drill holes with. Here is a good set (similar to what I own) from Lowes. $379, but on sale for $249. Assuming we are installing copper we will need a torch to solider with. Here’s one
We have now basically hit the $300 cut off with only a few of the tools he had on site for a project he had planned. We still have not added in pipe wrenches, tubing cutters, acid brushes, wire brushes, drill bits, pliers, and all of the other fun stuff that a replumb job requires.
$300 is absurdly low for tools.
GPS is imprecise by design. The US military controls it and doesn’t want the bad guys to have precise GPS. GPS signals - Wikipedia So no, I don’t think the GPS manufacturer should be sued and no, I wouldn’t say that GPS is a particularly good method for pinpointing a house. That said, my impressions appear to be a little out of date and both civilian and military accuracy is improving.
I would expect that if there’s a clean out, that the police would be notified. I would expect the materials to be stored for 30? 60? days, then treated as abandoned. I would expect that if there are not the proper decals affixed to the windows, then a phone call and additional verification would be in order. But I am not part of this business so I don’t know what the proper fail safes should be.
Holy shit.
Because you posted it. I’m not psychic.
How the fuck did you come up with that, as you might so charmingly put it? The actual value of the tools has nothing to do with IRS schedules.
Navteq is at the mercy of the local government’s GIS office (usually the tax assessors, sometimes emergency management office) for their property information and road names. Navteq can be blamed for crappy database update procedures after errors are noted.
We are talking replacement value. Read the link again.
Alvin Tjosaas, living, but retired, handy type person put HIS tools in the garage to work on his dead parents’ house. Those tools were taken away and “destroyed”*.
If Wells Fargo is willing to scour garage and estate sales to find equivalent quality used replacement tools for 50 cents on the dollar, they can spend their time doing so. Even if the tools belonged to a dead guy, the estate has the right to ask for replacements of the items taken.
*I say “destroyed” because the guys clearing the place out aren’t going to throw perfectly good tools in the trash. We all know damn well plenty of those tools are sitting in various toolboxes around the area.
Reminds me of when my dad hired guys to clean out my dead grandfather’s garage, and they “threw out” a new air conditioner unit that was being prepped for installation. Shit, when I hired a rubbish guy to take away the torn out remains of my old kitchen, he spent the time to disconnect and separate the old faucet, just to maximize scrap value.
Navteq claims they start with “the most up-to-date, reliable source material” but then they drive the streets to confirm street names and addresses.
As a plus - if you’ve ever been frustrated by mapping that goes to the wrong place, you can report it on that page.
But with roughly 151 million addresses in the US, there will be a few that get mis-coded.
Late to the thread as usual. I know fuck all about CA law, so use that as your guide. But, I’m a civil defense lawyer, but my evil little heart is throbbing over the prospect of filing this case. Above all, it will likely settle, but only because WF will likely pay a huge amount to the homeowners.
The jury instruction for punitive damages in CA is here: CACI No. 3948. Punitive Damages - Individual and Corporate Defendants (Corporate Liability Based on Acts of Named Individual) - Bifurcated Trial (First Phase) :: California Civil Jury Instructions (CACI) (2023) :: Justia
It looks like there might be a funky rule for punitive damages against an employee/agent versus a corporation that require a corporate officer to be complicit in the wrongful conduct or to ratify the conduct. The intent requirement for punies likely would just mean whether the actions were intentional, not whether WF intentionally seized the wrong property on purpose. I see there’s a mention of ‘reckless disregard’ and ‘malice’ similar to the requirements in Texas.
Based on my cursory review of the instructions, I am guessing plaintiffs will get to conduct all sorts of fun discovery regarding other similar events and all sorts of fun information behind WF’s policies and procedures during a foreclosure including all kinds of fuck-ups and how WF dealt with them. Of course there would be a confidentiality order so we’ll never hear about them. Although the punitive standard sounds impossible to meet, it’s not though it is difficult. Could the punitive damage claim survive dismissal? Depends on what’s found in discovery.
But, get that claim to a jury and with these apparent facts and hatred of mortgage companies, all the jury will really see is the term ‘reprehensible’ and you’ve got a plaintiff attorney’s wet dream. Don’t know if there are caps on punies in CA in relation to actual damages, that would be a factor, too. Also for consideration, what do the contracts with the contractors say? Are there enforceable indemnity and defense clauses? Can WF use the contract to get dismissed as a party?
As for appeals, if WF wanted to drag it out there would likely be a basis for filing an appeal such as a denied jury instruction, evidence that WF would claim was wrongfully admitted or denied admissibility etc… Whether such an appeal has legs is another question, but either way the process would eat up a great deal of time.
The California SC adopted SCOTUS’ “less than one order of magnitude” due process limit as more or less a bright line rule. There is no statutory cap, though; one LR article I read noted that they weren’t really necessary because the clear and convincing requirement made awards so rare.
One welder, one air compressor or even a decent set of tools for automotive work would easily exceed $300 (even used, even 20 years old)
From the linked article:
So, WF receives a call from the police department about the first clean out (break in) and they don’t have a phone to stop all contractors until they get the situation sorted?
According to the article, they’ve offered $250k. I hope the family turns that down and that this continues to make the papers because WF deserves to get a huge black eye over this screw up.
Texas uses the clear and convincing standard, too. One friend and one acquaintance got hit with huge exemplary damage awards here in the Dallas area within the past 6 months. It wasn’t so much that the conduct was egregious, but it survived long enough to get submitted to the jury. After that it became an issue of the horrific damages. Or so says my friend based on the jury poll post verdict. No, it wasn’t me. Haven’t been to trial that reached an actual verdict in over a year. 
Assuming WF is on the line at the time of deliberations, they’re screwed IMHO.
Yes.
Scalia and Ginsburg both wrote dissenting opinions. You don’t see THAT every day.
Why wouldn’t it be replacement value? I don’t understand that contention at all. Even insurance companies don’t offer only the price you originally paid when your stuff is stolen or damaged beyond repair. Otherwise the homeowner would be left out of pocket.
And my tools, just ordinary home hammers, cordless drill and bits, stepladder, screwdrivers, spanners, saws, etc, would easily cost $300 to replace (good drills aren’t cheap), and I’m not plumbing in an entire building.
Shortly after I moved into my current apartment, I got some sort of notice about a bailiff and WITH LOCKSMITH and various other scary things addressed to the previous tenant. So I went to the borough hall and begged them not to steal my stuff, and they actually had a form that I could fill out and a notice to post on my door. I never heard anything further about it (this was about six years ago).
Actually, they do. At least in most US states, you have to pay a bit extra if you want a homeonwners’ policy to pay out replacement value rather than market value. See here, for example. We’re not talking about an insurance policy anyway, though. As a general rule, property damage resulting from a tort is calculated based on the value of the property at the time is was damaged or destroyed.
That is probably generally true.
But you are missing the point. A garage full of tools, even decades old, is worth a shitload more than 300 dollars, even on the used old tools market.
Face it, you don’t know shit about the value of tools, used or otherwise, and got called out on it.