# Road courtesy maneuver: Naughty but nice **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 18, 2009, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/road-courtesy-maneuver-naughty-but-nice/514187 "2009-10-18T01:20:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Chopper9760](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cdc98d/32.png) [@Chopper9760](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chopper9760)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2009, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/road-courtesy-maneuver-naughty-but-nice/514187/61 "2009-10-19T15:45:14Z")
Round these parts we just make our turns really fast, minimal slowing down. However, anything that gets someone out of my way faster is much appreciated. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2009, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/road-courtesy-maneuver-naughty-but-nice/514187/62 "2009-10-19T15:48:52Z")
> [@NinetyWt](#): > > You might also see farm tractors or other equipment using the roads, as well as the occasional escaped horse or cow in the road (not to mention the wildlife). That’s it to a T! Manure spreaders, too. Stray goats at times also. Once a llama. ---
**Author:** ![Trom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/958977/32.png) [@Trom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trom)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2009, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/road-courtesy-maneuver-naughty-but-nice/514187/63 "2009-10-19T16:18:16Z")
Turning like this was very common and expected where I grew up in rural Minnesota. To get to my house I would most often have to take a left onto a dirt road from a 55 mph paved road. I would say 99% of the time, when I was able, I would make a “farmer’s turn.” In fact, I would argue that it was probably safer than staying and slowing down in the right lane. Farmer’s turns were so widely used, that not doing it would probably lead to the following car getting uncomfortably close to your rear bumper. I was recently in rural Wisconsin riding in the passenger seat. My girlfriend, who grew up in the city, was driving. We had missed our road and were looking to turn around and came to a dirt crossroad. Immediately following us were two motorcycles. There was no oncoming traffic. My girlfriend slowed from 55-60 mph and put on her blinker. Without thinking, this “felt” like a right turn. I assumed the bikers would go around us on the left. Then, she started to turn left! My stomach dropped and I immediately yelled. I thought we had just killed two motorcyclists! As the bikers, passed they flashed their lights and gave us a dirty look. They were expecting a farmer’s turn, as well. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2009, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/road-courtesy-maneuver-naughty-but-nice/514187/64 "2009-10-19T17:07:26Z")
> [@Trom](#): > > I was recently in rural Wisconsin riding in the passenger seat. My girlfriend, who grew up in the city, was driving. We had missed our road and were looking to turn around and came to a dirt crossroad. Immediately following us were two motorcycles. There was no oncoming traffic. My girlfriend slowed from 55-60 mph and put on her blinker. Without thinking, this “felt” like a right turn. I assumed the bikers would go around us on the left. Then, she started to turn left! My stomach dropped and I immediately yelled. I thought we had just killed two motorcyclists! > > As the bikers, passed they flashed their lights and gave us a dirty look. They were expecting a farmer’s turn, as well. Which is exactly why this a bad idea. You pick \*\*one \*\*standard which is safe in the common scenario and do it all scenarios. That way **everyone** knows what the frack to expect. The common scenario here is that you cannot expect to jump into an empty left lane to make a left turn. Lack of reasonable standards, a failure to follow them, and poor assumptions about who is doing what and why is what kills people. Get on the same page people. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2009, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/road-courtesy-maneuver-naughty-but-nice/514187/65 "2009-10-19T17:28:43Z")
“Why’d I stop? You never know, my brother could be coming the other way!” ---
**Author:** ![Trom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/958977/32.png) [@Trom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trom)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2009, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/road-courtesy-maneuver-naughty-but-nice/514187/66 "2009-10-19T17:39:52Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > Which is exactly why this a bad idea. > > You pick \*\*one \*\*standard which is safe in the common scenario and do it all scenarios. That way **everyone** knows what the frack to expect. > > The common scenario here is that you cannot expect to jump into an empty left lane to make a left turn. > > Lack of reasonable standards, a failure to follow them, and poor assumptions about who is doing what and why is what kills people. > > Get on the same page people. In some rural areas the farmer’s turn **is** the standard procedure. If everyone does it, it works just fine. Sure, they could run a story in the local newspaper describing the illegality of it, but in most rural areas there aren’t enough police to enforce the law. ---
**Author:** ![Belrix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ed655f/32.png) [@Belrix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Belrix)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2009, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/road-courtesy-maneuver-naughty-but-nice/514187/67 "2009-10-19T17:43:40Z")
> [@cornflakes](#): > > I haven’t seen it, but only because we don’t need to around here. Texas Transportation Code (Section 545.058) allows drivers to use a wide shoulder to pass anyone making a left turn (You can also drive on a wide shoulder to let faster traffic pass; don’t forget to wave.) All of the highways and most major farm-market roads in the state have wide shoulders to facilitate this. My wife got a ticket for doing this in Denver so, be warned, laws vary by state. Another vote for not doing it. It’s a bad habit to develop, IMO. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2009, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/road-courtesy-maneuver-naughty-but-nice/514187/68 "2009-10-19T17:47:05Z")
> [@Trom](#): > > In some rural areas the farmer’s turn **is** the standard procedure. If everyone does it, it works just fine. Sure, they could run a story in the local newspaper describing the illegality of it, but in most rural areas there aren’t enough police to enforce the law. And when somebody FROM the city comes driving through and somebody makes a poor assumption? Do I really need to bring up what your mother said about cliffs? ---
**Author:** ![Trom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/958977/32.png) [@Trom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trom)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2009, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/road-courtesy-maneuver-naughty-but-nice/514187/69 "2009-10-19T17:57:16Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > And when somebody FROM the city comes driving through and somebody makes a poor assumption? > > Do I really need to bring up what your mother said about cliffs? As I said, I think that basically nothing can be done about it. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2009, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/road-courtesy-maneuver-naughty-but-nice/514187/70 "2009-10-19T18:38:03Z")
nevermind. excessive snark mode here. post deleted. carry on. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2009, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/road-courtesy-maneuver-naughty-but-nice/514187/71 "2009-10-19T18:49:26Z")
The OP’s maneuver used to be pretty common in rural Georgia. As long as you’re on a long straightaway and you check carefully for other cars, I don’t see a problem. It is indeed regarded as a courtesy. ---
**Author:** ![whole\_bean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/96bed5/32.png) [@whole\_bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whole_bean)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2009, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/road-courtesy-maneuver-naughty-but-nice/514187/72 "2009-10-19T18:56:13Z")
> [@Trom](#): > > Turning like this was very common and expected where I grew up in rural Minnesota. To get to my house I would most often have to take a left onto a dirt road from a 55 mph paved road. I would say 99% of the time, when I was able, I would make a “farmer’s turn.” In fact, I would argue that it was probably safer than staying and slowing down in the right lane. Farmer’s turns were so widely used, that not doing it would probably lead to the following car getting uncomfortably close to your rear bumper. > > I was recently in rural Wisconsin riding in the passenger seat. My girlfriend, who grew up in the city, was driving. We had missed our road and were looking to turn around and came to a dirt crossroad. Immediately following us were two motorcycles. There was no oncoming traffic. My girlfriend slowed from 55-60 mph and put on her blinker. Without thinking, this “felt” like a right turn. I assumed the bikers would go around us on the left. Then, she started to turn left! My stomach dropped and I immediately yelled. I thought we had just killed two motorcyclists! > > As the bikers, passed they flashed their lights and gave us a dirty look. They were expecting a farmer’s turn, as well. I don’t understand. If she signaled (_i.e._ “put on her blinkers”), shouldn’t the bikers have known which way she was turning? Also, if they were expecting a farmner’s turn, why would they pass on the left? Isn’t that the lane the “farmer” turns from? ---
**Author:** ![Trom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/958977/32.png) [@Trom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trom)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2009, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/road-courtesy-maneuver-naughty-but-nice/514187/73 "2009-10-19T19:17:12Z")
> [@whole\_bean](#): > > I don’t understand. If she signaled (_i.e._ “put on her blinkers”), shouldn’t the bikers have known which way she was turning? Also, if they were expecting a farmner’s turn, why would they pass on the left? Isn’t that the lane the “farmer” turns from? Yeah, they did know we were turning left. Nothing happened to the bikers, other than being mildly inconvenienced by having to slow down. It was me that was confused. Based on the setting, motion of the vehicle, and my experience taking left turns on rural roads, I incorrectly thought she was taking a right turn. I brought up the story as an example of how a farmer’s turn is so common and normal to me that when it didn’t happen I was temporarily confused. ---
**Author:** ![whole\_bean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/96bed5/32.png) [@whole\_bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whole_bean)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2009, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/road-courtesy-maneuver-naughty-but-nice/514187/74 "2009-10-19T19:21:33Z")
> [@Trom](#): > > Yeah, they did know we were turning left. Nothing happened to the bikers, other than being mildly inconvenienced by having to slow down. It was me that was confused. Based on the setting, motion of the vehicle, and my experience taking left turns on rural roads, I incorrectly thought she was taking a right turn. I brought up the story as an example of how a farmer’s turn is so common and normal to me that when it didn’t happen I was temporarily confused. Got it. IMHO, the bikers can hug a nut. It’s folks like them (hard to see) that are most vulnarable to these farmer turners.l ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2009, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/road-courtesy-maneuver-naughty-but-nice/514187/75 "2009-10-19T21:54:46Z")
> [@Contrapuntal](#): > > If it’s so safe, why isn’t it the law? The logical endpoint of that sort of principle is: That which is not required is forbidden. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2009, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/road-courtesy-maneuver-naughty-but-nice/514187/76 "2009-10-19T21:56:10Z")
> [@kittenblue](#): > > (the wrong side of the road, cross the double yellow) Frankly, most of the roads I see this done (or do it) on don’t have any lines at all. We’re talking rural. I’m just happy they’re paved. ---
**Author:** ![chique](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@chique](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chique)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2009, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/road-courtesy-maneuver-naughty-but-nice/514187/77 "2009-10-20T03:45:42Z")
Yup, really common where I’m from; it’s common courtesy, but used more often for checking the mail than making a left. Also? No one ever, EVER actually stops at [this stop sign](http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=45.713072,-94.027948&spn=0,359.912109&z=14&layer=c&cbll=45.713064,-94.027959&panoid=nMQdIjH_PZeD_9cpEe6a0w&cbp=12,156.17,,0,5) unless a car is coming. ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2009, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/road-courtesy-maneuver-naughty-but-nice/514187/78 "2009-10-20T12:46:27Z")
I often see people who are driving in ways that would be fine IF they had correctly judged the conditions, position, and speed of other motorists…but their judgment turns out to be wrong. They just didn’t see X or think about Y before beginning their maneuver. On the occasions when it turns out you’ve misjudged the “perfect” visibility for your farmer’s turn, is it courteous to release the fireball _before_ rolling over six times, or does one wait until _after_ the crumpled wreckage stops sliding? ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2009, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/road-courtesy-maneuver-naughty-but-nice/514187/79 "2009-10-20T13:29:57Z")
> [@Sailboat](#): > > On the occasions when it turns out you’ve misjudged the “perfect” visibility for your farmer’s turn, is it courteous to release the fireball _before_ rolling over six times, or does one wait until _after_ the crumpled wreckage stops sliding? Well if everybody DOESNT wear their seatbelt, everyone will be “thrown clear” and it will all be good. ---
**Author:** ![Terraplane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/74df32/32.png) [@Terraplane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terraplane)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2009, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/road-courtesy-maneuver-naughty-but-nice/514187/80 "2009-10-20T14:13:50Z")
> [@Sailboat](#): > > I often see people who are driving in ways that would be fine IF they had correctly judged the conditions, position, and speed of other motorists…but their judgment turns out to be wrong. They just didn’t see X or think about Y before beginning their maneuver. > > On the occasions when it turns out you’ve misjudged the “perfect” visibility for your farmer’s turn, is it courteous to release the fireball _before_ rolling over six times, or does one wait until _after_ the crumpled wreckage stops sliding? If you aren’t able to see cars coming at you from the opposite lane and correctly judge their positions and speed you’re going to have problems making normal left turns also. God help you if you ever try to pass anybody. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/road-courtesy-maneuver-naughty-but-nice/514187.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/road-courtesy-maneuver-naughty-but-nice/514187.md?page=5)