# Road courtesy maneuver: Naughty but nice **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 18, 2009, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/road-courtesy-maneuver-naughty-but-nice/514187 "2009-10-18T01:20:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2009, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/road-courtesy-maneuver-naughty-but-nice/514187/101 "2009-10-21T02:40:43Z")
> [@omgzebras](#): > > If you aren’t able to see cars coming at you from the opposite lane and correctly judge their positions and speed you’re going to have problems making normal left turns also. God help you if you ever try to pass anybody. I didn’t say **I** have trouble. But plenty of people do. I drove less than a mile to the Park & Ride today, and two drivers blundered out into traffic right in front of me, and I could see their heads jerk and the whites of their rolling eyes when they realized how close I was to them. Plenty of people are terrible at judging speed and distance. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2009, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/road-courtesy-maneuver-naughty-but-nice/514187/102 "2009-10-21T03:39:26Z")
> [@omgzebras](#): > > As others have also mentioned, this is the same hazard you encounter when passing. You obviously have to look ahead to ensure that the road is clear, yes? And as for a car coming onto the road from the side street, you don’t look for that when you’re about to pass? Of course you do. I’m not going to do a turn like this when there’s a windbreak blocking visibility to the street I’m turning onto, just as I wouldn’t pass when I can’t see if somebody might be pulling out ahead. You shouldn’t be passing through intersections either. The traffic on the crossing road is prone to being in the blind spot created by your windscreen pillar. Of course you know that because you are a good driver, and _every single time_ you approach an intersection you _always_ move your head periodically to clear that blind spot, you _never_ get a little bit slack or tired and skimp on your lookout for other traffic. ---
**Author:** ![Terraplane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/74df32/32.png) [@Terraplane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terraplane)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2009, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/road-courtesy-maneuver-naughty-but-nice/514187/103 "2009-10-21T05:13:28Z")
[quote=“1920s Style “Death Ray”, post:102, topic:514187”] You shouldn’t be passing through intersections either. The traffic on the crossing road is prone to being in the blind spot created by your windscreen pillar. Of course you know that because you are a good driver, and _every single time_ you approach an intersection you _always_ move your head periodically to clear that blind spot, you _never_ get a little bit slack or tired and skimp on your lookout for other traffic. [/QUOTE] I pass through intersections like [this one](http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=45.713072,-94.027948&spn=0,359.912109&z=14&layer=c&cbll=45.713064,-94.027959&panoid=nMQdIjH_PZeD_9cpEe6a0w&cbp=12,156.17,,0,5) posted earlier, yes. I was under the impression that dashed lines indicate a passing zone but I guess I was wrong. I suppose it’s because I’m such a bad driver. Somebody should probably alert the road crews since they appear to have done this improperly across the entire state of Texas and, judging by the roads in the link, parts of Minnesota as well. ---
**Author:** ![Trom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/958977/32.png) [@Trom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trom)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2009, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/road-courtesy-maneuver-naughty-but-nice/514187/104 "2009-10-21T05:29:12Z")
> [@Sailboat](#): > > I didn’t say **I** have trouble. But plenty of people do. I drove less than a mile to the Park & Ride today, and two drivers blundered out into traffic right in front of me, and I could see their heads jerk and the whites of their rolling eyes when they realized how close I was to them. Plenty of people are terrible at judging speed and distance. So it’s settled. Stoplights or stop signs at every intersection. ---
**Author:** ![chique](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@chique](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chique)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2009, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/road-courtesy-maneuver-naughty-but-nice/514187/105 "2009-10-21T20:23:37Z")
[quote=“1920s Style “Death Ray”, post:102, topic:514187”] You shouldn’t be passing through intersections either. The traffic on the crossing road is prone to being in the blind spot created by your windscreen pillar. Of course you know that because you are a good driver, and _every single time_ you approach an intersection you _always_ move your head periodically to clear that blind spot, you _never_ get a little bit slack or tired and skimp on your lookout for other traffic. [/QUOTE] Erm, I’ve never heard of this before; have a cite? ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2009, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/road-courtesy-maneuver-naughty-but-nice/514187/106 "2009-10-21T21:41:36Z")
> [@Trom](#): > > So it’s settled. Stoplights or stop signs at every intersection. Uhhh…don’t they have that sorta thing already ? Beside personal driveways that is. ---
**Author:** ![AuntiePam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@AuntiePam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AuntiePam)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2009, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/road-courtesy-maneuver-naughty-but-nice/514187/107 "2009-10-21T21:47:19Z")
> [@chique](#): > > Erm, I’ve never heard of this before; have a cite? I thought passing at intersections was prohibited everywhere. It is in Iowa. Driving in the left lane (passing) is prohibited: 1. When approaching within one hundred feet of any narrow bridge, viaduct, or tunnel, when so signposted, or when approaching within one hundred feet of or traversing any intersection or railroad grade crossing. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2009, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/road-courtesy-maneuver-naughty-but-nice/514187/108 "2009-10-21T21:52:07Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > Uhhh…don’t they have that sorta thing already ? (edited to add: Stoplights or stop signs at every intersection) Beside personal driveways that is. Not where I drive. It’s _ **rural** _. I commute over one absolutely straight stretch of road that covers 18 miles. I have 4 stop signs along that way, as that stretch of road is crossed by even more rural roads at approximately 1 mile intervals. None of those intersections have 4-way stop. Only two-way, for whichever road the county considers ‘less traveled’. I have 18 stop signs on my 55 mile commute. Only one is a 4-way stop sign. I have no stoplights. About 1/3 of my commute is on roads that don’t even have lines painted on them. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2009, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/road-courtesy-maneuver-naughty-but-nice/514187/109 "2009-10-21T22:29:01Z")
snarky reply removed. ---
**Author:** ![Terraplane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/74df32/32.png) [@Terraplane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terraplane)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2009, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/road-courtesy-maneuver-naughty-but-nice/514187/110 "2009-10-21T22:37:37Z")
> [@AuntiePam](#): > > I thought passing at intersections was prohibited everywhere. It is in Iowa. > > Driving in the left lane (passing) is prohibited: > > 1. When approaching within one hundred feet of any narrow bridge, viaduct, or tunnel, when so signposted, or when approaching within one hundred feet of or traversing any intersection or railroad grade crossing. In Texas it’s ok to pass through a rural intersection unless it’s specifically marked as a no passing area. > [@](#): > > Sec. 545.056. An operator may not drive to the left side of the roadway if the operator is: > > (1) approaching within 100 feet of an intersection or railroad grade crossing in a municipality; > > (2) approaching within 100 feet of an intersection or railroad grade crossing outside a municipality **and** the intersection or crossing is shown by a sign or marking in accordance with Section 545.055 Bolding mine. ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2009, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/road-courtesy-maneuver-naughty-but-nice/514187/111 "2009-10-22T02:11:54Z")
> [@chique](#): > > Again: [Who am I going to hit?](http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=45.713072,-94.027948&spn=0,359.912109&z=14&layer=c&cbll=45.713064,-94.027959&panoid=nMQdIjH_PZeD_9cpEe6a0w&cbp=12,156.17,,0,5) > > Maybe you’ve never played with google maps before, so go on and give it a go. Use your arrow keys to take a little spin around that intersection; go for a “walk”. I kept expecting children of the corn to rise up out of the fields and come after me with pitchforks, in which case the farmer’s turn is probably not a bad idea. ---
**Author:** ![chique](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@chique](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chique)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2009, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/road-courtesy-maneuver-naughty-but-nice/514187/112 "2009-10-22T02:28:48Z")
> [@omgzebras](#): > > In Texas it’s ok to pass through a rural intersection unless it’s specifically marked as a no passing area. > > Bolding mine. Yeah, that makes more sense. I was just thinking of all the lawbreakers passing illegally on MN-23 and MN-25 - it would have to be the least enforced traffic law on the books. > [@needscoffee](#): > > I kept expecting children of the corn to rise up out of the fields and come after me with pitchforks, in which case the farmer’s turn is probably not a bad idea. That movie was utter crap. It’s the children of the soybeans you really have to worry about - they’re smaller, quieter, and take you out at the ankles. Nasty little buggers. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2009, 8:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/road-courtesy-maneuver-naughty-but-nice/514187/113 "2009-10-22T08:54:28Z")
> [@chique](#): > > Erm, I’ve never heard of this before; have a cite? A cite for what? I didn’t say it’s illegal, I don’t know the law in your state or country, but it’s not a good idea regardless, traffic on the crossing road can be in your blind spot and that traffic probably won’t even bother looking in your direction before turning out on to the road. ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2009, 11:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/road-courtesy-maneuver-naughty-but-nice/514187/114 "2009-10-22T11:30:10Z")
> [@ghardester](#): > > If someone ahead of me is stopped in my lane of travel, making a left turn off a 2 way road, I will slowly pass them on the right provided there is room to do so safely, without leaving the pavement. This is legal. > > If I saw someone ahead of me switch lanes and begin driving the wrong way in the opposing lane, even if they had the turn signal on, I would not pass them. I would wait for crazy driver to either stop or leave the roadway. Because the driver’s intentions are not clear, and are illegal and unsafe. > > I don’t understand why this manuver is needed. If there is no traffic coming toward us in the opposing lane, your left turn should be able to be made quickly the legal way. Put on left turn signal, pull close to center line without crossing it, and make your turn when you reach the left exit. How is that holding me up? How is performing an illegal and dangerous move in front of me a ‘courtesy’? I don’t get it. Me neither. If there’s no traffic coming in the opposite direction, then the person behind you can pull out and overtake without having to slow down. Just put your indicator on in good time, maybe tap the brake briefly to let them know you’re going to be slowing down, and everyone’s happy. If I saw somebody pull the manoeuvre the OP describes, I’d be wary of passing them as I would think they are likely to do something else odd. It simply wouldn’t be clear to me what their intentions were. (I live in the UK, and rural roads are common round here, FWIW). ---
**Author:** ![chique](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@chique](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chique)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2009, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/road-courtesy-maneuver-naughty-but-nice/514187/115 "2009-10-22T14:01:12Z")
[quote=“1920s Style “Death Ray”, post:113, topic:514187”] …traffic on the crossing road can be in your blind spot and that traffic probably won’t even bother looking in your direction before turning out on to the road. [/QUOTE] 😕 Traffic on the crossing road would be stopped at a stop sign (or the end of a driveway). ---
**Author:** ![PunditLisa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/4af34b/32.png) [@PunditLisa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PunditLisa)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2009, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/road-courtesy-maneuver-naughty-but-nice/514187/116 "2009-10-22T14:43:35Z")
> [@omgzebras](#): > > I understand that everybody thinks they’re a good driver. I understand that those same people, myself included, are likely to be wrong sometimes. But for this maneuver you are using a skill set so basic that if you’re going to screw it up on a farmer’s turn, you’d also screw it up for a normal left turn or a passing maneuver because they require you to pay attention to the exact same things to be safe. Actually, the “simplest” maneuver in this whole scenario is performed by the dude behind you. And, yet, people feel the need to circumvent the rules in order to save him from having to…wait for it…_decelerate._ Talk about a basic skill set! ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2009, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/road-courtesy-maneuver-naughty-but-nice/514187/117 "2009-10-22T14:46:52Z")
> [@PunditLisa](#): > > Actually, the “simplest” maneuver in this whole scenario is performed by the dude behind you. And, yet, people feel the need to circumvent the rules in order to save him from having to…wait for it…_decelerate._ Talk about a basic skill set! Right on. AND, as I pointed out up thread, if HE WASNT RIDING YOUR ASS in the first place, which he has no good reason to do in the boonies, he wouldnt even have to decelerate ! ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2009, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/road-courtesy-maneuver-naughty-but-nice/514187/118 "2009-10-22T16:09:42Z")
> [@chique](#): > > 😕 > > Traffic on the crossing road would be stopped at a stop sign (or the end of a driveway). Not if the intersection was controlled by Give Way (Yield) signs on the minor road only and the crossing traffic was _approaching_ the intersection, looking to his left, no worries, no traffic, turns right onto the road, and hey WTF BANG! He hits the car overtaking through the intersection coming from the right, a direction from which he wasn’t expecting to see traffic on his side of the road. If you don’t understand how the windscreen pillars can create significant blind spots, have a read of [this study (PDF.)](http://www.lrrb.org/pdf/200216.pdf) > [@](#): > > Research that directly focuses on the problem of forward looking blindspots (FLBs) generated by interruptions in the field of view by the A-pillar (front support pillars) of a car as it approaches an intersection is sparse. As can be mathematically demonstrated, these blindspots can comfortably “hide” the presence of very large vehicles. The size of these obstructed fields of view allows vehicles to remain hidden from one another’s view for extended periods if the acceleration or deceleration of the two vehicles occurs while approaching an intersection at right (or near right) angles. This issue is further exacerbated if the behavior of one vehicle signals to another that they are aware of their presence by slowing, for example at a yield sign, when in fact the slowing vehicle is unaware of the other’s presence. > > These FLBs can obscure the presence of the other vehicle all the way to intersection. In such specific conditions, a collision is a high probability. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2009, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/road-courtesy-maneuver-naughty-but-nice/514187/119 "2009-10-22T16:11:01Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > AND, as I pointed out up thread, if HE WASNT RIDING YOUR ASS in the first place, which he has no good reason to do in the boonies, he wouldnt even have to decelerate ! Not true, though. A driver at a safe distance behind will still have to decelerate for the person turning. Application of the 3 second rule, along with basic physics, demonstrates this to be so. ---
**Author:** ![PunditLisa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/4af34b/32.png) [@PunditLisa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PunditLisa)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2009, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/road-courtesy-maneuver-naughty-but-nice/514187/120 "2009-10-22T16:19:57Z")
> [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](#): > > Not true, though. A driver at a safe distance behind will still have to decelerate for the person turning. Application of the 3 second rule, along with basic physics, demonstrates this to be so. The basic laws of physics also explain why a head-on collision is far worse than a rear-end collision. Ergo, you should stay in your own lane until you can safely turn left. You should also not turn your steering wheel to the left in anticipation of a left-hand turn (while you are stopped and waiting for traffic to clear). Because if some dude does hit you from the rear, you want to be projected in a straight line so that you stay in your own lane vs. into oncoming traffic. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/road-courtesy-maneuver-naughty-but-nice/514187.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/road-courtesy-maneuver-naughty-but-nice/514187.md?page=7)