# Road trips w/ electric vehicles
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/road-trips-w-electric-vehicles/932148
**Category:** Factual Questions
**Created:** [February 3, 2021, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/road-trips-w-electric-vehicles/932148 "2021-02-03T17:03:47Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 3
### Author:  [@LivingGhost371](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LivingGhost371)
#### Post date: [February 4, 2021, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/road-trips-w-electric-vehicles/932148/41 "2021-02-04T05:19:57Z")
A typical rental- find someone to give you a ride to the airport. Wait in line. Go up to the counter where the rude agent tries to sell you insurance and add-ons that would triple the price of the rental. Finally leave an hour later. At the end to the trip find someone to pick you up at the airport once you drop off the car. Wait in line at the drop-off. Find out you’ll be charged $500 because of a scratch on the bumper that may or may not have been on it when you picked it up.
The top post of this thread is GM no longer making ICE vehicles for any reason by 2035, not them continuing to make them if the need is there.
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### Author:  [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)
#### Post date: [February 4, 2021, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/road-trips-w-electric-vehicles/932148/42 "2021-02-04T05:41:31Z")
Or… just order online and take an Uber to the neighborhood rental location? Things are a bit smoother now in the 21st century.
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### Author:  [@Capn\_Carl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capn_Carl)
#### Post date: [February 4, 2021, 6:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/road-trips-w-electric-vehicles/932148/43 "2021-02-04T06:06:43Z")
So you’ve posted a worst-case rental scenario to represent rental experiences.
Then you assumed that GM would never make another ICE vehicle, no matter what, and all other manufacturers would do the same, no matter how much demand still exists for ICE vehicles.
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### Author:  [@Brayne\_Ded](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brayne_Ded)
#### Post date: [February 4, 2021, 8:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/road-trips-w-electric-vehicles/932148/44 "2021-02-04T08:58:25Z")
If I was wealthy, and frequently made longer trips (250\> miles), I would keep my ICE vehicle and get an EV for short-distance work. The range of an EV depends also on the installed battery capacity, but assuming that there is a moest increase in capacity using present technologies, a range of 250 miles on one charge is not bad. All the cars I have ever driven had a range of 350-400 miles, usually the former with long fast stretches. On long journeys I stop after no more than 2 hours for a break. Given fast charging, even 10 minutes would give you maybe another 100 miles, and a meal break would be long enough to fill 'er up.
Eating in cars? The missus snacks at the wheel all the time, and I don’t like it, because it makes a mess. On long journeys we take some food to eat while driving, but on an 8-hour journey I insist on one sitdown meal.
A network of charging stations and the widespread use of fast charging will change the situation entirely. Battery swapping? It sounds to me as if it has the potential for some spectacular accidents if you accidentally shirt the terminals.
Any Dopers in really cold places such as Alaska or Minnesota? Do EVs have any issues at very low temperatures?
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### Author:  [@FinsToTheLeft](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinsToTheLeft)
#### Post date: [February 4, 2021, 10:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/road-trips-w-electric-vehicles/932148/45 "2021-02-04T10:26:59Z")
> [@Pleonast](#):
>
> For comparison, what’s the cost for a new gas station? Or the cost of decommissioning a gas station? (To be clear, these are rhetorical questions, I don’t expect you to know the answers.)
I don’t think this can be ignored.
I drove past an old gas station in my neighbourhood yesterday that closed down around 2010. The tanks and much of the soil was removed and a soil remediation system was installed. I saw two workers collecting samples yesterday. So not only have they been unable to sell the land for a decade, they are still spending money on repairing the damage to the environment.
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### Author:  [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)
#### Post date: [February 4, 2021, 11:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/road-trips-w-electric-vehicles/932148/46 "2021-02-04T11:47:00Z")
A government regulation that takes effect 9 years from now, or a corporate policy that takes effect in 14, is no regulation or policy at all. If, as we get closer to those dates, it turns out that there’s still big demand for gasoline vehicles, then either the dates will be pushed back, or the restrictions will be loosened (for instance, allowing hybrids in addition to pure-electrics). Change has to start with the demand. And two-car families switching one (but not both) of their cars to electric is a good way to get that change in demand started.
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### Author:  [@chappachula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chappachula)
#### Post date: [February 4, 2021, 11:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/road-trips-w-electric-vehicles/932148/47 "2021-02-04T11:49:18Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#):
>
> I see anything from $300,000 to 1 million to put in a gas station now.
But there’s not much need to build (and pay for) new gas stations these days. They’re everywhere
.
If 100 million new electric cars are to hit the road–many of which will be owned by people with no private parking at home or at work- that’s a LOT of new filling stations to build. And paying for it is a bit of a chicken-and-egg thing. People won’t buy a car if there aren’t enough charging stations, and building a station will be financially sound only where enough people have already bought.
It will balance out eventually—but not within the next couple years…
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### Author:  [@lobotomyboy63](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lobotomyboy63)
#### Post date: [February 4, 2021, 12:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/road-trips-w-electric-vehicles/932148/48 "2021-02-04T12:05:49Z")
Could these electric cars charge at campgrounds? When we camped, there was usually provision for 30 amp or even 50 amp connections at each site. I thought it would be interesting if you had an electric for a tow vehicle—let it charge at your campsite while you’re fishing or whatever. It may not be as fast but if you’re just heading into town every few days, or if the line for the regular station is hours long, that’s fine.
Anyway the campsites are part of the infrastructure to consider. KOA, Good Sam, and other parks would probably be happy to sell electricity.
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### Author:  [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)
#### Post date: [February 4, 2021, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/road-trips-w-electric-vehicles/932148/49 "2021-02-04T12:32:41Z")
Perhaps a roof mount or rear hitch mount ‘battery pod’ can be rented for the long distance, one could rent it on the way and drop it off at the next station once depleted.
The car would pull what it can from the ‘pod’ before its own, and might be able to charge itself from the pod. Rinse and repeat if needed to make the distance.
Also about eating in the car. Yes I frequently do that and prefer to do that. I like to make miles while eating and enjoy the view. With now auto driving cars that could be even a better option. But sometimes changes need to be made and the return of the rest stop may be coming back.
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### Author:  [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)
#### Post date: [February 4, 2021, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/road-trips-w-electric-vehicles/932148/50 "2021-02-04T12:38:34Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#):
>
> Today, if I drive 1000mi starting w/ a full tank, I may need to stop 2-3x for gas/restroom - maybe 10 min each Maybe a couple more restroom breaks. Total 30-40 mins.
I think you’re basing your calculations with yourself as a norm and I’m not certain you are.
About the most I can drive in a day is 500 miles, with a rest break every 90 minutes or about every 100 miles. Now, my rest breaks are short - basically pee, drink, have a bite to eat so about 10-15 minutes but there are four of them in a 500 trip so about 40-60 minutes. per day. And two days for 1000 miles.
That’s if I’m doing all the driving. If I have a partner to swap with (and allow me to nap when I’m off-duty) yeah, that 1000 miles can be done in one go but there will still be a pee break every 200 miles or so. So… still four of those in the trip or 40-60 minutes.
If a recharge is 20 minutes in intervals corresponding to my rest breaks sure, I could make that 20 minutes and I don’t think it would be a huge difference in my travel. As long as there isn’t a long wait to get to a charger.
Then again, not sure I’m an average traveler, either.
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### Author:  [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)
#### Post date: [February 4, 2021, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/road-trips-w-electric-vehicles/932148/51 "2021-02-04T13:25:37Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#):
>
> There is no reason why you couldn’t buy or rent a vehicle with more range. Most people don’t really need much range, so would opt for something that takes care of their daily needs. With an ICE car, making a gas tank twice as big doesn’t increase the cost of the care very much. With electric, batteries will probably always be a significant part of the cost, so you would only get a car that meets your needs. If you do a lot of long distance driving, then something with a longer range may be what you look into.
My sister and nephew both have electric cars as their main vehicles. When they want to take a longer road trip than those cars have ranges they rent something larger. Which they do maybe once or twice a year (and haven’t done since 2019 because covid).
This might become a more common pattern in the future.
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### Author:  [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)
#### Post date: [February 4, 2021, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/road-trips-w-electric-vehicles/932148/52 "2021-02-04T13:32:40Z")
> [@Chronos](#):
>
> One point to remember: How many families in the US already own more than one car? And in how many of those families does one of the drivers have a short commute? In every such family, you could easily replace one of the cars with an all-electric. On an ordinary day, you’d end up with one gasoline car on the road instead of two. And when you need to make a rare long road trip, you just use the gas car for that.
^ That’s my sister’s household, and has been for about 5 years now. So it’s feasible, even if not terribly common at the moment.
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### Author:  [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)
#### Post date: [February 4, 2021, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/road-trips-w-electric-vehicles/932148/53 "2021-02-04T13:55:02Z")
> [@LivingGhost371](#):
>
> That’s a good point, except that the way things are looking soon a family will have no option to buy an ICE vehicle and an electric vehicle- they will both have to be electric even if it in no way suits the families needs.
I expect used ICE vehicles will be around for awhile (mine are currently 19 and 21 years old), although when they get scarce the price might go up. There might also arise a market for renting them.
> [@LivingGhost371](#):
>
> Renting a car is such an unbelievably expensive, unpleasant and inconvenient experience that most people buy enough car for all their needs, not just their most common needs
Really? I haven’t found that to be the case at all. I’ve rented a car a couple times and yes, it cost some money but aside from that I did NOT find it “unbelievably expensive” (keep in mind I am just barely on the lower end of middle class), not at all unpleasant, and not inconvenient. Inconvenient would have been NOT being able to rent what I needed.
I have no doubt there are people who find renting a car or truck all of the above, but I suspect they aren’t the most discerning of consumers.
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#):
>
> Not in comparison. There’s a cutoff point of course, but driving a truck instead of a sedan will cost you thousands more per year in gas alone, not to mention the cost of the truck and general inconvenience of having a giant vehicle. That will pay for quite a few days of rentals, not to mention delivery charges.
^ This. In gas alone my truck is double the cost per mile that my car is. In my case, given a short commute these days, in absolute terms that’s not much. However, that is the reason my car has double the miles on it that my pick-up does, because over the years I’ve favored the car for longer trips and more often to keep my costs down.
Not to mention the hassle of one person owning/maintaining two vehicles, needing larger space for my relatively small pickup vs. some of the giant SUV’s that make my truck look tiny, and so on.
(I keep my truck because 1) it’s paid for, 2) there is a bonus to having two working vehicles when your vehicles are around 20 years old or older, and 3) I do actually have use for a truck a dozen or so times a year so I still find some benefit in keeping it. If I no longer had my truck I’m not at all certain I’d buy another.)
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#):
>
> For many, it still makes sense to go with the giant truck (or whatever), but people are also really bad at math. Lots of people drive way more car than really makes sense.
To which I’ll add a lot of people are driving more vehicle than they really know how to handle. Lots of people driving very large vans/SUV’s badly.
> [@Capn\_Carl](#):
>
> What makes renting a car so difficult for some? In a typical year, we’d rent one 3 or 4 times. I never thought of it as being so hard.
If you’re under 25 in the US it’s nearly impossible to rent a vehicle for a road trip. Other than that… yeah, I don’t get it either.
> [@Capn\_Carl](#):
>
> And if most of the market is electric, but there are niches where only an ICE vehicle will do, don’t you think manufacturers would want to make a vehicle for that market?
Somebody will be filling that need. With less demand the price per unit will probably rise, and I would also expect a robust market in fixing and maintaining used ICE vehicles.
> [@LivingGhost371](#):
>
> A typical rental- find someone to give you a ride to the airport. Wait in line. Go up to the counter where the rude agent tries to sell you insurance and add-ons that would triple the price of the rental. Finally leave an hour later. At the end to the trip find someone to pick you up at the airport once you drop off the car. Wait in line at the drop-off. Find out you’ll be charged $500 because of a scratch on the bumper that may or may not have been on it when you picked it up.
Wow.
Well, first of all, last time I needed a rental for a road trip I didn’t rent at an airport, that will drive up the cost right there. I actually DID want the insurance because my base vehicle insurance only covers me in my vehicles, not in rented vehicles (this saves me money over the long run, as I only buy what insurance I actually need when I need it). Yes, that does increase the price of the rental but I offset that with the savings I get from not having that coverage the other 358 days of the year. They are required by law to mention that rental coverage to make sure you do have an opportunity to be covered as I am not the only person whose own insurance does not cover me in rentals.
I admit I’m spoiled in regards to airports - if I want to go to O’Hare or Midway I have someone drop me off at the East Chicago train station after which I can use mass transit to get to either one. Granted, not everyone has that option, but a lot of people do. A good ten million or more in the greater Chicago area.
The car rental I use is a local one that will actually pick me up and drop me off at home.
Where that is not an option you can look into taxis/Uber/Lyft.
And I’ve never been charged for damage to rental car.
Also have never encountered a rude vehicle rental agent either, but that is certainly a possibility in the customer service world. YMMV.
> [@Brayne\_Ded](#):
>
> Any Dopers in really cold places such as Alaska or Minnesota? Do EVs have any issues at very low temperatures?
Not exactly addressed to me, but my sister who lives in Buffalo, NY has stated that the range of her electric does diminish in the winter. As hers does have a very small gas tank backup [(Chevy Volt)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Volt) that has never left her stranded, but it does mean that she has to purchase about 2-3 gallons of gas to use in the winter. It is very, very much a short-range commuting car if you run it solely electric. Have not had an opportunity to ask my nephew about his Tesla (yes, the young man has some money).
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### Author:  [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)
#### Post date: [February 4, 2021, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/road-trips-w-electric-vehicles/932148/54 "2021-02-04T14:08:45Z")
> [@LivingGhost371](#):
>
> A typical rental- find someone to give you a ride to the airport. Wait in line. Go up to the counter where the rude agent tries to sell you insurance and add-ons that would triple the price of the rental. Finally leave an hour later. At the end to the trip find someone to pick you up at the airport once you drop off the car. Wait in line at the drop-off. Find out you’ll be charged $500 because of a scratch on the bumper that may or may not have been on it when you picked it up.
Not sure what country you’re in but in the United States, there is a car rental company built around the idea that they’ll come and get you. They feature it in advertisements and everything.
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### Author:  [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)
#### Post date: [February 4, 2021, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/road-trips-w-electric-vehicles/932148/55 "2021-02-04T14:16:18Z")
> [@Brayne\_Ded](#):
>
> Eating in cars? The missus snacks at the wheel all the time, and I don’t like it, because it makes a mess. On long journeys we take some food to eat while driving, but on an 8-hour journey I insist on one sitdown meal.
Sounds like your missus either chooses some messy food or eats sloppily. It is negligible (if any) effort to choose foods that are not messy, to pack it in baggies, bring paper towels, and eat neatly. ESPECIALLY if you have the assistance of a copilot. Now if you wanna slurp spaghetti while hurtling down the highway solo… 😃
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### Author:  [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)
#### Post date: [February 4, 2021, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/road-trips-w-electric-vehicles/932148/56 "2021-02-04T14:17:17Z")
I’ve never had the rental car come to me, but there’s a rental place nearby. And i can do most of the paperwork online. It’s still a nuisance, and i chose to buy a car that didn’t leave me needing to rent routinely. Typically, i want to drive four a long weekend trip, and i want to minimize the time i take off from work. I only have so much total vacation time, and is like to use it on vacation, not feeling with unpleasant logistics like picking up a rental car.
I have once been charged for a scratch. It wasn’t there when i picked up the car. It certainly didn’t happen while i drove the car. But we parked it on the street, and trucks turned around on that street, and i assume one of them nicked the car. Damn, that was expensive.
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### Author:  [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)
#### Post date: [February 4, 2021, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/road-trips-w-electric-vehicles/932148/57 "2021-02-04T14:22:01Z")
Yeah - it is not nearly as big a deal as suggested. Generally easier at neighborhood outlets than airports.
Heck, for years we went down to 1 car, figuring it wouldn’t be too difficult to arrange our schedules, and would be vastly cheaper to rent when scheduling was impossible. Of course, I walked to the train for my daily commute. But choosing such a location was also an intentional choice.
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### Author:  [@FastDan1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FastDan1)
#### Post date: [February 4, 2021, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/road-trips-w-electric-vehicles/932148/58 "2021-02-04T14:34:11Z")
I agree that renting a car is nothing like _Planes, Trains, and Automobiles_, but my anecdote… Of the half dozen or so times I’ve rented a car from the local branch of the company that you don’t mention, they have always had an excuse for NOT picking me up. They have never picked me up.
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### Author:  [@YamatoTwinkie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YamatoTwinkie)
#### Post date: [February 4, 2021, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/road-trips-w-electric-vehicles/932148/59 "2021-02-04T14:36:46Z")
> [@lobotomyboy63](#):
>
> Could these electric cars charge at campgrounds? When we camped, there was usually provision for 30 amp or even 50 amp connections at each site. I thought it would be interesting if you had an electric for a tow vehicle—let it charge at your campsite while you’re fishing or whatever. It may not be as fast but if you’re just heading into town every few days, or if the line for the regular station is hours long, that’s fine.
Yes, many (most ) RV campgrounds have NEMA 14-50 (240VAC / 50 amp) service, which for something like a Tesla you only need to purchase a [$35 adapter](https://www.tesla.com/support/home-charging-installation/mobile-connector) to use. Charging (~30 mi/hr) on a 50A isn’t _blazingly_ fast, but it can certainly work if your schedule can tolerate a few hours, or an overnight stay.
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### Author:  [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)
#### Post date: [February 4, 2021, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/road-trips-w-electric-vehicles/932148/60 "2021-02-04T14:37:39Z")
And instead of finding a place that has electricity (and any parking lot for a major retailer might have charging stations), you’ll need to find a place that has an underground tank full of flammable liquid.
“Can I go shopping for something while my tank gets filled up?”
“No - it’s against the law to leave your car unattended while being filled up - but if you’ve got someone with you they can pick up candy or cigarettes while you watch the car.”
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