# Robert A. Heinlein Racist? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 26, 2008, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/robert-a-heinlein-racist/465364 "2008-09-26T17:18:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2008, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/robert-a-heinlein-racist/465364/21 "2008-09-26T21:59:50Z")
> [@Terrifel](#): > > [The Sixth Column](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sixth_Column) is an interesting contrast to Heinlein’s later work, with its monolithic imperialist Asians and the secret death ray that kills people according to race. But of course there was a war on at the time. It was also written from an outline by John Campbell, so RAH had to work with what he was given. He said he managed to get rid of the “most racist” parts. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2008, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/robert-a-heinlein-racist/465364/22 "2008-09-26T22:09:47Z")
> [@Terrifel](#): > > [The Sixth Column](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sixth_Column) is an interesting contrast to Heinlein’s later work, with its monolithic imperialist Asians and the secret death ray that kills people according to race. But of course there was a war on at the time. Actually, I still wouldn’t call that very racist. They weren’t worried about the death ray killing Americans of Asian ancestry for the simple reason that the Asian imperialists had already rounded them up and exterminated them, for “impurity” or something of the sort. The invaders were pretty much all that were left. So, in a sense it was a weapon that the invaders very racism made usable against them. As for the characters themselves being racist; well, under the circumstances they would be, I’d think. ---
**Author:** ![Tristan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tristan/32/18058_2.png) [@Tristan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tristan)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2008, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/robert-a-heinlein-racist/465364/23 "2008-09-26T22:12:02Z")
> [@Terrifel](#): > > [The Sixth Column](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sixth_Column) is an interesting contrast to Heinlein’s later work, with its monolithic imperialist Asians and the secret death ray that kills people according to race. But of course there was a war on at the time. If I remember, in “Grumbles from the Grave” they discuss how RAH had gotten saddled with a fantasy idea, and was expected to put together a workable Science Fiction story out of it. He HATED the “death ray” idea, but well… a writer is different from a whore in that whore are often thanked afterwards. hehehe ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2008, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/robert-a-heinlein-racist/465364/24 "2008-09-27T00:06:28Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > It was also written from an outline by John Campbell, so RAH had to work with what he was given. He said he managed to get rid of the “most racist” parts. If I’m not mistaken, Fritz Leiber’s “Gather Darkness” is an even more modified version of Campbell’s original work (never published) “All”. Leiber got rid of the racial aspect entirely, focusing only on the idea that the subjagated people’s disguised their resistance as a religious movement. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2008, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/robert-a-heinlein-racist/465364/25 "2008-09-27T00:25:55Z")
The drill seargeant in Starship Troopers uses the expression ‘Ah, so!’ when he’s talking to one of his maggots, a Japanese kid, when he learns the kid is related to an acquaintance of his (former instructor?). I don’t know if that’s racist as such, but it’s certainly comes across as condescending and silly. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2008, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/robert-a-heinlein-racist/465364/26 "2008-09-27T02:03:49Z")
I didn’t see the future blacks being cannibals as a dig against them racially. I presumed that Heinlein was trying to depict a technologically advanced society that was nonetheless based on utterly non-western values. It wasn’t that whites no longer ruled the world, it was that western civilization had failed, and been replaced by something completlely alien to the reader’s values. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2008, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/robert-a-heinlein-racist/465364/27 "2008-09-27T03:29:24Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Actually, I still wouldn’t call that very racist. They weren’t worried about the death ray killing Americans of Asian ancestry for the simple reason that the Asian imperialists had already rounded them up and exterminated them, for “impurity” or something of the sort. There was one Asian American character - a gardener, I think. I remember thinking that the authorial voice dealt with him in some pretty stereotypical language. ---
**Author:** ![appleciders](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85f322/32.png) [@appleciders](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/appleciders)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2008, 6:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/robert-a-heinlein-racist/465364/28 "2008-09-27T06:29:13Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > There was one Asian American character - a gardener, I think. I remember thinking that the authorial voice dealt with him in some pretty stereotypical language. Frank Mitsui, I think his name was. He was portrayed as fairly all-American; wife and kids, gardener by trade, no real link to Asia beyond genetics. He also save the day in the end, giving his life to take out the crazed mad scientist who has taken over the death ray after becoming convinced that he is God. Not one of RAH’s best novels, really. ---
**Author:** ![Walton\_Firm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/45deac/32.png) [@Walton\_Firm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walton_Firm)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2008, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/robert-a-heinlein-racist/465364/29 "2008-09-27T15:22:20Z")
> [@A\_shameful\_cracka](#): > > There is one black character in the story who was not raised in a slave-holding white man eating society, and he’s portrayed as someone who betrays a family that obviously respected and loved him because he felt condescended to as soon as he gets the chance. Maybe Hugh Farnham respected Joseph and even treated him as an equal (though still a subordinate), but it is made quite clear in the book that his wife and son did not. I found that scene in the book very powerfully written: here we have this guy who is obviously intelligent, competent and (mostly) honorable, someone who might have been destined for greatness if he had not had the misfortune of being born in a culture where people of his ethnicity were considered second-class citizens. Because of that accident of birth, he had to go work as a houseboy for a white family. Can you blame him for carrying a grudge about that? And then the roles are suddenly reversed, and it’s payback time. Maybe his behavior does not score top marks on the honor scale, but are you sure that you would have done better? Heinlein is saying here to the reader: “This is what racism does to people. If you treat people like slaves, they will behave like slaves.” Actually, what I find most interesting about _FF_ is that even though race is obviously the book’s major theme, none of the characters is written as a straightforward proxy for that character’s ethnicity. A lesser author, when writing about a group of people which included a single black one, would automatically write that character as representing all blacks everywhere. As a result, that author would then be scared silly to give that character even the most minor flaw, since that would be taken as the author saying that all black people have this flaw. As a result, the black character would end up being portrayed as almost supernaturally perfect. But Heinlein never falls into that trap. Every character in _FF_ is a stand-alone human being with their own flaws and quirks, not a proxy for everybody who shares their skin color. Joseph is a prude when it comes to nakedness, not because he is black but because he is Joseph. The existence of Duke and Grace Farnham makes it very clear that this is not a book about the superiority of the white race. The message of the book is not “this is how white/black people behave”, but “this is how various kinds of people behave when placed into a society where their worth is judged by their skin color.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/robert-a-heinlein-racist/465364.md?page=1)