# Robert E. Lee Barracks **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 7, 2016, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/robert-e-lee-barracks/762006 "2016-08-07T02:51:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2016, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/robert-e-lee-barracks/762006/1 "2016-08-07T02:51:16Z")
My google-fu fails me. Please help. When I was stationed in Germany back in the Bronze Age an American Army barracks in Mainz was named Robert E Lee or usually just called Lee Barracks. It was in Mainz. My failing memory says it wasn’t named after that Robert E Lee but a decendent or relative that died in WWII. The German version of Wikipedia seems to say it was the civil war general but I think it’s wrong. I can’t seem to find the answer on any American site. The barracks was closed and turned over to the Germans in the mid 90s so there isn’t a lot of information on it. Can anyone find more information? Am I right or was it named after the Civil War general? ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2016, 7:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/robert-e-lee-barracks/762006/2 "2016-08-07T07:13:05Z")
I’d be surprised if it wasn’t named after the general, but I can’t find anything either way. Lee’s great grandson, also named Robert E Lee, fought in WWII, but not in an important enough position for anyone to name something after him. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2016, 10:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/robert-e-lee-barracks/762006/3 "2016-08-07T10:44:17Z")
I searched 550 newspaper articles(mostly Stars and Stripes) using the terms and came up empty. I agree that it almost certainly was the General. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2016, 11:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/robert-e-lee-barracks/762006/4 "2016-08-07T11:59:53Z")
If it was called “Robert E. Lee”, then it was named after the traitor. If there was a story going around that it was named after a relative of his, it’s because they didn’t want to admit that they were naming it after the traitor. ---
**Author:** ![Schnitte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/schnitte/32/9033_2.png) [@Schnitte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Schnitte)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2016, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/robert-e-lee-barracks/762006/5 "2016-08-07T12:26:30Z")
[Apparently](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Robert_E._Lee_(SSBN-601)) the American forces after WWII found the Cicil War general to be a suitable namesake for nameable things, so it doesn’t appear implausible that these barracks were, in fact, named after him. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2016, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/robert-e-lee-barracks/762006/6 "2016-08-07T13:54:19Z")
There are many US military installations named after Confederate figures. Forts Benning, Bragg, A.P. Hill, among others–all Confederates. Also some ships and units. The guided-missile cruiser USS _Chancellorsville_ is named for a Confederate battlefield victory. Similarly, the military embraces Native chiefs who fought the United States of their day, from the submarine _Tecumseh_ to the Black Hawk helicopters. The modern United States is heir to both sides of these conflicts. All these people were Americans. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2016, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/robert-e-lee-barracks/762006/7 "2016-08-07T14:49:52Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > If it was called “Robert E. Lee”, then it was named after the traitor. If there was a story going around that it was named after a relative of his, it’s because they didn’t want to admit that they were naming it after the traitor. Not a story, my memory. I was there many times and I recall seeing it posted on a wall or a plaque and being surprised it wasn’t named after the general. But that’s an over 20 year old memory and I’m trying to confirm it. At the time no one cared so there was no need to make anything up. ---
**Author:** ![Jim\_s\_Son](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19adc/32.png) [@Jim\_s\_Son](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jim_s_Son)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2016, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/robert-e-lee-barracks/762006/8 "2016-08-07T19:55:08Z")
There was a Lt General John C. H. Lee in World War II. Very controversial in that he challenged Army segregation policy and ran supply operations in great comfort for himself and his staff. He doesn’t seem to be a descendant of Robert E Lee, though. Could a barracks have been named after him and people later confused it with the Civil War general? > **[John C. H. Lee](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_C._H._Lee)** > > World War II: > John Clifford Hodges Lee (1 August 1887 – 30 August 1958) was a career US Army engineer, who rose to the rank of lieutenant general and commanded the Communications Zone (ComZ) in the European Theater of Operations during World War II. > A graduate of the United States Military Academy at West Point, New York, with the class of 1909, Lee assisted with various domestic engineering navigation projects as well as in the Panama Canal Zone, Guam and the Philippines. During World War I,... ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2016, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/robert-e-lee-barracks/762006/9 "2016-08-07T20:00:22Z")
No. The barracks were specifically the Robert E. Lee Barracks. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2019, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/robert-e-lee-barracks/762006/10 "2019-01-22T19:07:02Z")
As I was searching for another old thread I came across this one. One of the few questions that never got the right answer. Sometime after this someone posted the original barracks dedication on the 8th Infantry Division Facebook page. My memory was correct. Just like other barracks in Germany it was named after a soldier that was killed nearby during World War II. His name was Robert E Lee but there was no indication if he was a descendent or just named after the general. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2019, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/robert-e-lee-barracks/762006/11 "2019-01-22T19:30:21Z")
The Army has continued to refuse to rename installations/streets named after Civil War figures. > **[Ten Army bases are named for Confederates. Should they be changed?](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/should-10-army-bases-named-confederate-general-be-changed-n794036)** > > The nation's largest Army base, Fort Bragg in North Carolina, is named for Gen. Braxton Bragg, who commanded 40,000 troops battling the Union Army. You’d think there’d at least be impetus to change the name of Fort Bragg, seeing as its namesake was one of the most ineffectual and derided military leaders in Civil War history. ---
**Author:** ![Bear\_Nenno](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bear_nenno/32/3358_2.png) [@Bear\_Nenno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bear_Nenno)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2019, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/robert-e-lee-barracks/762006/12 "2019-01-22T20:50:04Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > You’d think there’d at least be impetus to change the name of Fort Bragg, seeing as its namesake was one of the most ineffectual and derided military leaders in Civil War history. There isn’t because the base has earned its own identity, separate from its namesake. Ask 10,000 people what they think of when they hear the name “Bragg”, and maybe two of them would say, “Confederate General”. Bragg is the home of Airborne and Special Operations. Benning is home of the Infantry, not some two-bit Confederate General. It’s not like there’s a huge statute of either general at either of those bases. The knowledge of where the names come from is, at this point, trivia. They don’t even teach it in the military. In fact, I was in the Army for probably 10 years before I learned who either of those bases were named after. I hadn’t even pondered it. So there is no big impetus, and it’s probably too late at this point. Nobody wants to change the name of a base that they no longer associate in any way with its namesake. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2019, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/robert-e-lee-barracks/762006/13 "2019-01-22T22:27:08Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > The Army has continued to refuse to rename installations/streets named after Civil War figures. > > [Should 10 Army Bases Named for Confederate Officers Be Changed?](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/should-10-army-bases-named-confederate-general-be-changed-n794036) > > You’d think there’d at least be impetus to change the name of Fort Bragg, seeing as its namesake was one of the most ineffectual and derided military leaders in Civil War history. In this case that’s not relevant. It was not named after anyone from the Civil War. It was named at a time when nobody would’ve cared if it was named after a Civil War general so there was no need back door it. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2019, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/robert-e-lee-barracks/762006/14 "2019-01-23T02:48:23Z")
From that other page I found the text of his Distinguished Service Cross. There was also a memorandum that changed the name officially in 1956 but that was a photo so I can’t post that directly here. That is consistent with other posts in the area that were named after soldiers killed in World War II. DSC CITATION: The President of the United States takes pride in presenting the Distinguished Service Cross (Posthumously) to Robert E. Lee, First Lieutenant (Armor), U.S. Army, for extraordinary heroism in connection with military operations against an armed enemy while serving with the 67th Armored Regiment, in action against enemy forces on 17 November 1944. First Lieutenant Lee’s intrepid actions, personal bravery and zealous devotion to duty at the cost of his life, exemplify the highest traditions of the military forces of the United States and reflect great credit upon himself, his unit, and the United States Army ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2019, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/robert-e-lee-barracks/762006/15 "2019-01-24T17:21:05Z")
Lee had a number of relatives who served in the Navy in WWI/II, including Captain (later Vice Admiral) Fitzhugh Lee III (Lee’s great-great-nephew), and Vice Admiral William Augustus Lee (his cousin). I can’t find any reference to relatives who shared his name and served in WWII, although he did have a son named Robert E. Lee II and grandson named Robert E. Lee III via his son William Henry Fitzhugh Lee (why do Southerners always have to name things after other things). The grandson died when he was two, and the son only had daughters, so I can’t tell if _they_ might have had little Robert Es. There was also a Major General Robert E. Lee Bullard III who seems to be best remembered for failing to follow orders and getting a National Guard division slaughtered in WWI. Again, apparently no relation. So my guess is this Lee was not a relative. ---
**Author:** ![Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slow_moving_vehicle/32/291_2.png) [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2019, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/robert-e-lee-barracks/762006/16 "2019-01-25T19:39:22Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > The Army has continued to refuse to rename installations/streets named after Civil War figures. > > [Should 10 Army Bases Named for Confederate Officers Be Changed?](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/should-10-army-bases-named-confederate-general-be-changed-n794036) > > You’d think there’d at least be impetus to change the name of Fort Bragg, seeing as its namesake was one of the most ineffectual and derided military leaders in Civil War history. I wondered why anyone would name a base after Braxton Bragg, in the first place; he wasn’t hugely popular or successful. He was, however, from North Carolina, which I imagine is the justification. Unrelated fun fact: my third cousin lives in Bragg’s childhood house. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2019, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/robert-e-lee-barracks/762006/17 "2019-01-25T20:54:09Z")
> [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](#): > > I wondered why anyone would name a base after Braxton Bragg, in the first place; he wasn’t hugely popular or successful. He was, however, from North Carolina, which I imagine is the justification. > > Unrelated fun fact: my third cousin lives in Bragg’s childhood house. Most of the southern bases were opened either during the first or second world war. The MO was for the government to open these large training areas and then to name them after local notable military leaders like Andrew Jackson or John Bell Hood. ---
**Author:** ![Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slow_moving_vehicle/32/291_2.png) [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2019, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/robert-e-lee-barracks/762006/18 "2019-01-25T22:42:22Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > Most of the southern bases were opened either during the first or second world war. The MO was for the government to open these large training areas and then to name them after local notable military leaders like Andrew Jackson or John Bell Hood. That’s what I figured. But it’s not like there weren’t other famous Civil War generals from North Carolina, like D.H. Hill or James Johnston Pettigrew. On the other hand, Bragg’s hometown of Warrenton is only about 120 miles north of Fort Bragg. ---
**Author:** ![DinoR](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dinor/32/2821_2.png) [@DinoR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DinoR)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2019, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/robert-e-lee-barracks/762006/19 "2019-01-31T20:45:37Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > DSC CITATION: The President of the United States takes pride in presenting the Distinguished Service Cross (Posthumously) to Robert E. Lee, First Lieutenant (Armor), U.S. Army, for extraordinary heroism in connection with military operations against an armed enemy while serving with the 67th Armored Regiment, in action against enemy forces on 17 November 1944. I was curious for the rest but couldn’t dig up the full citation. I did find “AAR 67th Armored Regiment, 2nd Armored Divison, 6 June 44 Thru May 45” on [Scribd](https://www.scribd.com/doc/159497151/AAR-67th-Armored-Regiment-2nd-Armored-Divison-6-June-44-Thru-May-45) that required a paid account to access more than the first couple pages. LT Lee showed up in a search of the document but way past the free trial pages. 2nd Armored Division “crossed the Wurm River and seized Puffendorf 16 November” ([Cite](https://www.how-amps.org/armored-forces/)) so that gives a decent idea of their location the day before LT Lee’s death. That was part of [Operation Queen](https://en.historylapse.org/operation-queen) an effort to breach the Siegfried Line. > [@](#): > > The 2nd Armored Division formed the left wing of the XIX Corps assault, > aimed at Gereonsweiler and Linnich. Its sector was so narrow that the attacking force was limited initially to the Combat Command B. The advance proceeded well in spite of the mud. Anti-tank defenses around around Apweiler proved to be especially intense, but CCB made good progress. In Puffendorf the Americans suffered heavy loses when they had to react to a German counterattack. Nevertheless the American tanks made good progress. That at least hints that LT Lee’s unit was part of CCB at the time of his death. From an artist selling prints he did for one of the Osprey history series books there’s a [picture](https://www.steve-noon.co.uk/photo_9194901.html) he did for a counterattack on the day of LT Lee’s death. The caption reads: > [@](#): > > Tank Battle at Puffendorf, November 17, 1944 > Panther tanks of Kampfgruppe Bockhoff began attacking towards Puffendorf in the early morning. Sherman tanks of 2nd Armoured Division, deployed in open ground bore the brunt of the attack. Struggling in the mud, the guns of the Sherman’s were largely ineffective against more heavily armoured Panthers. Often sheltering behind ruined buildings their experienced crews maintained a safe distance, from the more vunerable Sherman’s. Later that morning the battered US forces withdrew, 2nd Battalion having lost 19 tanks. > > From: Osprey Publishing’s: Campaign 181, The Siegfried Line 1944-45. Still just hints but more of them. One of the biggest chunks of fighting in the divisional area on the day involved “2nd Battalion” of some unnamed regiment. We’ve got a name of the Kampgruppe commander. The use of Panthers hints at the 10th SS Division rather than the 116th Panzer Regiment that were the mechanized parts of the German LXXXI Corps involved in the fighting. ([Cite](https://mxdoc.com/the-german-10th-ss-panzer-division-from-the-eastern-front-to.html)) There’s a Major Bockhoff mentioned in that last cite who commanded the 9th Panzer Division’s reconnaissance battalion so there’s some other threads to pull at to come at the battle from the other side. It also mentions the 9th SS Panzer Division adjacent to the 10th SS. Kampfgruppe’s could certainly be odd collections of disparate units especially at that stage of the war. That’s as far as I’ve gotten so far. No promises on more but the notion of a large fight where LT Lee faced Panthers crewed by veteran SS will likely have me dig more eventually. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2019, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/robert-e-lee-barracks/762006/20 "2019-02-02T20:38:02Z")
Robert E. Lee’s father had a distinguished Revolutionary War record, too, as it happens: [Henry Lee III - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Lee_III) I once knew an elderly black lawyer named Robert E. Lee. Not sure if his middle name was the same (Edward) as the Confederate hero. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/robert-e-lee-barracks/762006.md?page=2)