I have to ask, if you didn’t have the full story, why did you post a made up narrative? That kind of wishful thinking about the history of the civil war its aftermath is why this discussion is so difficult to have now. Generations of white Americans have been brainwashed to believe things that just aren’t true. When you repeat those lies it just makes it harder for us to undo 150 years of revisionist history.
Meh. For all you know, he was.
Dunno if Martha ever recorded her thoughts on the subject. But considering the number of Revolutionary-era sites with plaques claiming that he slept there, well…
Or did you mean he would have been hanged?
Mohammed owned slaves in the Quran.
Would anyone care to cast the first stone at all Muslims regarding this issue?
I’d gladly tell them not to put up any statues of the guy.
Besides the fact that it’s utterly forbidden (I get your joke), I’d like to see someone make a statement about his character because he was a slaveholder and see where it gets them.
Jokes aside, doesn’t that rather miss the point?
I thought the point was, in community after community, it’s the locals who say they want a statue to come down. And, in yet other communities, the locals are saying they want to keep a statue in place.
And, well, I’m cool with that. If a local majority says they want to take down a given statue, then I figure I’ll say it’s their business. If the majority of that local community says they don’t have a problem with honoring a slaveholder, then I’m not going to brandish a weapon and shout “WELL, IT’S A-COMIN’ DOWN!!!1!!”
We’re agreed on that.
My point was that pulling down statues of ANYONE who owned slaves would be problematic, as that swath of people is a lot wider than many realize. If one is to condemn Washington to that degree on the basis of being slaveholders, they should attack all other slaveholders with the same veracity.
The refrain I’ve heard of late – which, as far as I can tell, checks out – is that we honor Washington and Jefferson and et cetera in spite of slavery. We say, look, we’re honoring these guys for other stuff: stuff we find to be so terrific that, for now, we still feel it’s worth commemorating despite them having owned slaves.
But a statue of Lee – what, are we honoring his student days at West Point? His years of military service before the Civil War? Are we saying there’s something else he did that we figure outweighs him fighting to keep slavery intact a while longer?
Or, no, that’s why the statue was put up: not despite, but because!!!
Agreed.
My first issue with Confederate statues is that you’re honoring people who tried to secede from the Union and what the Constitution stands for; literal traitors. That alone would be enough reason to take them down.
I agree. Everyone did bad stuff in life. When it comes to statues and other veneration, what matters is what they are being honored for. And, additionally, what cause they were created to celebrate.
In the vast majority of Confederate statue cases, they are being honored for their fighting with the Confederacy for the right to own slaves. And they are usually put up in defiance of Civil Rights advances of some sort.
If there’s actually another reason for some of these, fine. Make a case for that. But saying stuff like “you’re destroying history” is dumb. And saying that it’s some sort of anti-Southern thing is dumb.
And I apply this logic to any other statue created for or honoring any other cause. If both are bad, the statue shouldn’t be left up. Sure, it’s up to the local communities to get this done legally. I’m not advocating going around and busting statues or anything. But let’s actually do it.
If the statues get removed because of vandals, that means the sentiment is still there in the people. But if we get them to want to take them down, then it shows we’re winning hearts and minds.
Also, Lee in particular bothers me because there’s this weird veneration where he was doing the right thing by showing loyalty to his state, even if he didn’t agree with the cause. Even if this were true, that’s not a reason to celebrate. Fighting with your state (or country) for a bad cause is not an honorable thing. Sure, it can be understandable, but it’s not veneration-worthy.
Leave the statues in place, but replace the heads with the head of Jebidiah Springfield, and affix a plaque with the motto: “A noble spirit embiggens the smallest man.”
I think we can all get behind that sentiment.
That guy sounds like he had a silver tongue.
Lee also already has a national monument that is nearly more famous than he is - Arlington National Cemetery. Built on his estate and bearing American dead, starting with Union soldiers from the Civil War.
That was less of a monument, and more of a middle finger.
In the early 1900s, when they started talking about putting a statue of Lee up at Gettysburg, surviving Union veterans pushed back. One of their arguments was that Arlington National Cemetery was the most fitting monument to Lee’s life work as it figuratively laid the dead at his feet. And if you know the history of the cemetery and how it was selected, it is even more poignant: the quartermaster for the US Army was a fellow West Point graduate with Lee; his son had been killed in battle against the insurgency and considered Lee a traitor who should be hanged or banished after the war. While he didn’t have that power, he did have to power to select Lee’s home as the site of the national cemetery and to make sure no Lee would ever live in that home again.
After the war, the Lee family took the US government to court trying to get their home back. Robert E. Lee did not publically participate because he felt it would hurt the case, so his wife pursued the case while Robert Lee hid behind her like the little bitch traitor he was.
We could all just have statues and monuments of unicorn with rainbow poop.
It was Lee’s son who died for his inherited birthright…what would do if the good ole’ U S of A took you house and land…i daresay you would bring suit…which would be you’re right!!
I meant to say Lee’s son “sued”
That’s our only choice? Unicorns or racists who condoned the murder of American POWs? If so, maybe just a nice fern instead of a statue. So glad to see Lee using the courts, the time before that when he lost the humans he owned, he lead an army of traitors. Good thing we didn’t have to kick his ass a second time.