Robert Jordan, you are KILLING me! (the geekiest rant ever)

Wow, all my favorite authors are getting trashed here… anyway, I tend to agree anyway.

Jordan: Yep, very drawn out descriptions, too many characters. I still like it though.

Goodkind: Soul of the Fire I didn’t really like. What was the point of Fitch/Dalton/Chanboor/Beata character development? What a waste… I just started Faith of the Fallen. I fear I may end up not liking it. Damn you Zedd, just teach Richard to use his gift already! I want to see some magic! I guess I keep reading because I hope something will happen.

Feist: This is my main character… oops he’s dead now. Next main character… oops killed him. Next main character… time to die. Some of those deaths aren’t even glorious. I did enjoy the books though. I have to start the new Krondor series. Hopefully they’ll be enjoyable.

Dragonbone Chair thru Green Angel Tower Pt 2: Umm… is this kid ever going to do anything? Simon was totally useless in the final battle. He never did anything of any value. I remember reading forever about him trying to find his way out of the catacombs of the castle… I almost gave up right then.

I’ll have to check out some of those other authors mentioned.

That was the whole point! Sometimes the right thing to do, is to do nothing. I can think of lots of less heroic things than his final choice, things that would have been ‘traditional’ in the Fantasy Genre. There’s a certain anti-climatic rightness to the [un]action that pulls the rug out from under Ineluki’s ambitions and plans. Simon returns to the values that are noble, such as charity, sympathy, and forgiveness, and in doing so, pulls Ineluki’s teeth forever.

More detatiled analysis here. This thesis compares Tad Williams’ work to Alfred Lord Tennyson’s Idylls of the King

This thread is going to get longer than the fucking series. I’m glad you guys are trading recommendations, but personally I am soured on this genre for the forseeable…the last thing I want to do right now is rush out and read another long, boring series full of swordfights and quests and lacking plot, pacing, character development, and full of vaguely-Arthurian-sounding-but-not-quite-Arthurian names.

Mods, feel like closing this?

i can see i’m in the minority here, but i love the WOT series. can’t get enough. RJ has built such a detailed world that i find myself lost in it every time i pick up his books. there are so many easily missed important details in the “long, boring descriptions” that everyone here seems to hate. i would direct fans of the series to http://wotmania.com so much good stuff there.

i do have one problem with series. Rj seems to have a fixation on female nudity. the aiel sweat tents, the group that made egwene amyrlin having to bear their breasts (i hope that didn’t spoil the surprise for anyone, but to be honest i dont think there are too many people here that are still reading the series), the aiel punishment of forcing women to walk around nude, etc. i would have to agree with Wabbit that RJ has issues with women.

I got about a third of the way through The Redemption of Althalus (did I spell “Althalus” right? Do I care?) before it went on the “back to the library” pile. (I would’ve burned it and stomped on the ashes if I wouldn’t have had to pay for it and thus ensure the Eddingses made some more money off this monolithic pile of Extruded Fantasy Product.)

I can only take so much of every character’s saying “sort of” at least once a page, and the main male and female characters’ calling each other twee nicknames, all this supposedly passing for wit. Others must have a higher tolerance for it, though, including their editors…

Hello, I thought I’d paste my review here.


I’ve read and finished Book 1 - 9 in this past month. I’ve managed to borrow all the books from my library so I could read them in order. This is what I think. I was really shocked at how thick (and heavy) the books were. I really expected to like the books after the glowing reviews I read, but after I read them, I was wondering how some people can actually say that they’re good. My opinions about how WoT are bad, are totally uninfluenced as I’ve read nothing but people saying that the books are good. I endured till book 9 because I wanted to finish the series to give a more balanced opinion.

First, I totally Hated book 1. The pacing was too slow for me. There are hundreds of pages about them running, travelling here and there, getting into “mini-adventures”, but not many important things happening that could contribute to their fight in the end. I only liked the part where Perrin got the eyes. Then the climax where they were at the eye of the world was too short. Blah. A travelogue masquarding as a storybook.

Book 2 was ok. The parts about Mat were the best, and I liked his staff fighting with the 2 boys. Why didn’t RJ put more staff fighting in the later books? The Rand subplot wasn’t very good. It was more travelling, getting lost, and seeing a mysterious female. And the stupid men weren’t suspicious of her. Doh. No wonder so many people died at that time, their mums didn’t tell them not to talk to strangers. It only got interesting when the SeanChan came in, and when Engwene was made a damane. The rest of the book was rolling pretty smoothly after that, where the action really started. Although I still think RJ’s pacing is quite draggy and slow, if not downright bad, but I’ve got used to it to continue reading.

Book 3 is where RJ had Rand running off, therefore seperating all these people into several groups again. sigh And the baddie he killed in the end is the baddie’s minion, contary to what everyone thought. It’s so obvious he changed his plans because he wanted to keep writing.

Book 4, 5, 6, 7 were quite consistent with new plotlines and different quests, although I was very very po’ed at the end of book 7, because they spent one whole book looking for the damn bowl and he didn’t show them using it. Argh!

Book 8, the only major thing happening was them using the bowl. Then it’s one more big travelogue again. Thanks so much. rolls eyes

Book 9, the pace picked up again, but again, RJ didn’t fail to surprise by making Mat, who didn’t appear in the last book, Prepare to leave Ebou Dar and didn’t show him leaving. And the Perrin/Falie thread was shoved off into the preview. Thanks again. And the rebel Aes Sedai have been marching for 3 books already, and they haven’t even started the battle yet. A major and useful quest is completed in this book, and I’m surprised that they apparently suceeded when most of the characters are portrayed as useless.

Oh, does he have to keep on repeating several things? Like, Don’t trust Aes Sedai, I hate Aes Sedai, Nynaeve pulling braids, Faile being jealous, sniffs, crossing arms below breasts, yadda yadda. Just say it once or trice and get on with the story, sheesh.

Another thing I have some issues with are that the characters aren’t that likeable. Maybe because I can’t identify with them as we get very little info from their pov, because most of the info is repeated, like “I hate Aes Sadai, Don’t trust [insert name/group here]”. The men think women are b*tches, the women think men are tools and fools, everyone don’t trust each other. That about sums everyone in the books up, yes?

RJ needs to work on character development. The characters don’t seem very real as he doesn’t let readers into the psyche of the characters often. Even when the reader gets to know what a person is thinking, it is often written in the 3rd person pov. After 9 books I still don’t really know anything about, say Rand, except for the necessary things like he’s the dragon reborn, and he doesn’t trust Aes Sadai rolls eyes etc. That’s not what makes a character come alive. What are his likes and dislikes? What is he feeling? What is he thinking? What did he do during his childhood, except stealing apples and getting switched by Nynaeve? The length of 9 books doesn’t justify what little we know about the main character.

The world that Robert Jordan created has breadth but no depth. Yes, there are lots of cultures and different people, but how much do you know of them excately? They aren’t fleshed out nicely. Again, the length of the 9 books doesn’t justify that.

Summing up, I think plotwise, he’s done a good job, but his execution of the story(leaving out some threads in some books, unacceptable!, presentation(travelogues, putting in tons of unimportant stuff that doesn’t add to the story or culture - am surprised he didn’t give us the details of when the characters go to the privy) and pacing(too slowwww) sucks.

I will continue reading the series until they complete, partly because I’m interested enough in the story, and well I’ve nothing better to do anyway. Let’s just hope he didn’t plan for 50 books, which seems pretty possible by the rate he’s going…

Wow, thanks for this thread. :slight_smile: I picked up Robert Jordan’s first book a few years ago, but I couldn’t get past the first few pages because I thought it was too cliche-ish and boring. But then last year, I was in the book store, and this lady there struck up a conversation with me, telling me that Jordan’s series was awesome. So I decided I’d try again. I read the first few pages this time around before I got bored/side-tracked. He spent too much time describing the scene of carnage before we even got to meet the first character. Hmmm. Perhaps I should just give up while the gettin’s good and sell or donate my copy to a local used bookstore. But still, I’m fascinated at how he manages to drag out stuff so. It sounds like he’s mastered the concept of the shaggy dog story.

David Eddings must die.

I read the Belgariad… Ok it was good. I kinda liked the amusing was the characters interacted. The second series… Ok this is getting old, half the old characters, some new ones and a new joke continued over 5 books. Did I mention that the plot was EXACTLY THE FREAKING SAME? Oh sure, now some kid is kidnaped, but its still about a young boy getting his powers.

The Sparhawk books… AAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGG

NO STOP WITH THE JOKE! YOU’VE USED IT FOR 16 MOTHERFUCKING BOOKS

YES ITS THE SAME PLOT! 4 SERIES AND ITS THE SAME FUNDAMENTAL PLOT!

Let us not talk about High Hunt? Or whatever that pornographic book about some guys hunting that he wrote.
Robert Jordan… Ok, I want to know what happens, just the major plot points… I’m tired of characters who are so isolated in their world view and unable to talk to each other that they make 600 page problems! If half your characters bitchslapped the other half ALL THE PROBLEMS WOULD GO AWAY.

“Look we have different beliefs, I don’t think either of them is more important so lets try to work together.” THIS IS NOT A HARD CONCEPT! IF ANYONE HAD IT IN YOUR BOOKS THEY’D BE DONE BY NOW!

But you can probably guess that I own copies of all of these books.

My largest complaint about the RJ series is that the books are too long, and the individual subplots move so slowly that you can’t remember what happened between books. And I’m tired of reading the books over again.

Heh, I thought this was a rant about Robert Jordan, the WGN news guy.

I’ll just leave now.

Damn! I though this was dead.

Don’t forget The Losers, Eddings’s pathetically transparent attempt at misguided social action through ham-handed Christ metaphors.

I used to like Eddings, but when he started using the SAME FUCKING statement, almost word-for-word in DIFFERENT series, it made me realize what a pitiful hack the man (and his damn wife!) is.

Remember The Prophecy speaking to Belgarion, at the end of The Malloreon?

“In a very real sense, the world was created to give you a place to stand while you fixed things.”

Remember the Bhelliom to Sparhawk (or Anakha or whatever) at the end of that damn pile of words that made up the second Sparhawk series, whatever the fuck it was?

“In a very real sense, the world was created to give you a place to stand while you fixed things.”

OK. Paraphrased, but it was the SAME statement.

Here’s my rant against Robert Jordan. I’ve read the whole series and very much enjoy it, but the man REALLY copied Tolkein! I mean, paying a tribute (like Tolkein’s Watcher in the Water to H.P. Lovecraft’s Cthulhu) is cool, but here’s a little list I came up with for LOTR vs. WOT.

  • LOTR: Frodo, along with Merry, Pippin, and Sam leave with a mysterious wizard figure that myseriously appears to fight the Dark Lord. He dies for the hero but eventually makes a glorious return. WOT: Rand, along with Mat and Perrin, leave with a mysterious wizardess figure that mysteriously appears to fight the Dark Lord. She dies for the hero but eventually will make a glorious return.
  • LOTR: Frodo and Co. are chased by the Ringwraiths, black cloaked evil creatures that ride black horses and carry cursed swords. They can sense the ring from afar. WOT: Rand and Co. are chased by the Myddhraal, black cloaked evil creatures that ride black horses and carry cursed swords. They can sense channeling from afar.
  • LOTR: Wizards can be of different colors, for example, blue, white, grey, brown. WOT: Wizardesses (Aes Sedai) can be of different colors, and the leader is ‘of all colors’
  • LOTR: Wormtongue is a servant of Sarumon. One of the Nazgul stabs Frodo with a cursed blade. WOT: Wormwood is a servant of the Dark Lord. He stabs Rand with a cursed blade.
  • LOTR: The Eldarin tongue is rarely spoken, but is spoken by some (i.e. Sam) during times of great courage. WOT: The Elder Tongue is rarely spoken, but is spoken by some (i.e. Mat) during times of great courage.
  • LOTR: Andor was an island east of Aman. WOT: Andor is a nation.
  • LOTR: There’s a little creature named Gollum. WOT: There are very evil bad guys named gholams.
  • LOTR: The 9 Nazgul hunt for Frodo on behalf of the Dark Lord. WOT: The 13 forsaken hunt for Rand on behalf of the Dark Lord.
  • LOTR: Hobbits live in the Shire, a backwoods area where they produce the best tobacco and do not leave or seek adventure. WOT: Main characters live in the Two Rivers, a backwords area where they produce the best tobacco and do not leave or seek adventure.
  • LOTR: The Misty Mountains are a huge range where mining took place. WOT: The Mountains of Mist are a huge range where mining takes place.
  • LOTR: Aragorn is the uncrowned king, skilled with a sword and in the wild, afraid of nothing, and shies away from others. WOT: Lan is the uncrowned king, skilled with a sword and in the wild, afraid of nothing, and shies away from others.
  • LOTR: Orcs always persue, are in huge numbers, are stupid, but use many weapons, and rely on the Uruk-hai to lead if they wish to be organized. WOT: Trollocs always persue, are in huge numbers, are stupid, but use many weapons, and rely on the Myddhraal if they wish to be organized.
  • LOTR: The Dark Lords name should not be uttered. WOT: The Dark Lords name should not be uttered.
  • LOTR: Beyond the mountains and wastelands of Mordor, you will find Mount Doom. WOT: Beyond the mountains and wastelands of the Blight, you will find Mount Dhoom.

Robert Jordan: I enjoy his books; I especially enjoy the attention to detail, whether it be the clothes, the spanking or the hundreds of minor characters. I think he’s carefully–and tediously–created a world that at least shows hints of the complexity of a real world. Most authors out there tend to fall into the same trap of offering up hackneyed characters, lands and plots. True, the enormity of Jordan’s plots/characters, etc… is a bit daunting, but definitely a literary challenge I enjoy.

Terry Goodkind: I almost didn’t finish Wizard’s First Rule. His writing seemed somewhat juvenile and very predictable. But then I managed through the first book and became amused by his seeming inability to leave his poor characters alone. So, he became fun. With the exception of the last book, Pillars of Creation, I’ve pretty much enjoyed all of them. I think he just likes putting his main characters through suffering galore.

Feist: I tried. I really tried. But then he took one of his main characters, stuck him in an alien cocoon of some sort, and when the character came out…he was some sort of uber-wizard. That’s it. No details or half-hearted attempts at explanation. More of a “one thing led to another…” excuse.

Brooks: Interesting enough to read, but I think he’s dragging on the whole Shanarra thing a bit too long. Not one of the best authors, but I can still digest his words.

George Martin: Excellent books; very unpredictable. And he pays a lot of attention to detail.

Piers Anthony: Yep. Xanth needs to have stopped after the first 4 or 5 books.

Donaldson: Covenant was such a refreshing way of presenting fantasy. Almost a literary equivalent to the way Proust or Camus handles the suffering of their characters.

Eddings (both of 'em): The Belgarion and Mallorean were fun ways of writing fantasy; Sparhawk and his gang were cheap knock-offs. He does his poorest writing when he writes 1st-person. Belgarath, Polgara (along with the Riven Codex) and Althalus were terrible.

Williams: Loved his Memory, Sorrow and Thorn series. Started off very slow, but turned out much better than I had hoped.

Jennifer Roberson: I always enjoyed her Cheysuli and Sword-Dancer series. Fun.

But the best series ever? L. Frank Baum’s Oz. Gotta love those books. Although, Lloyd Alexander’s Prydain is a close second and C.S. Lewis’ Narnia (regardless of the religious subtext) a near third. Those were my favorite books from my far-away youth. :slight_smile:

I gave up on the Wheel of Time after the second book (I think… it was a few years ago), bored the CRAP out of me! I won’t bother to pick up any of the later books, because I’m sure they will bore me as well… but or those of you who like it, I’m happy for ya! Nothing better than a good book!

I just finished reading C.J. Cherryh’s Devil to the Belt, and I’m not sure why… I should have given that up after the first hundred pages or so.:frowning:

I’m going to go re-read the LOTR again (for the maybe 200th time)…

I read WOT up through Path of Daggers, but now I wonder why I bothered. Jordan has a really annoying tendency to present the climax after the fact, with the characters sitting around talking about it. Path of Daggers didn’t even have a proper climax, or even a fully formed story for that matter. If Jordan had trimmed those 9 books down to about 4 or 5 they would be much better.

I’ve started on George R R Martin’s Game of Thrones. Now there is a good book. You won’t find a single cookie cutter character, and the plot, like, moves while still being complex.

I would just like to add that it was Nalesean (the Tairen noble who was with Mat) who was killed by the Gholam and NOT Talmanes (who is commanding the Band of the Red Hand in Mat’s absence). Continue.

Grim

Yeah, so did I!

What is cracking me up, as I reread this thread, is that most characters and plot points from Winter’s Heart have completely left my brain. The next book will come out, and I’ll read it, and 10 pages into it I’ll be cursing “Fucking good stout Two Rivers Wool! Fucking girl-on-girl spanking scenes that manage to be boring! Will the fucking rebel Aes Sedai EVER get to the fucking White Tower? Where the fuck is Rand?” But I’ll read it.
The LOTR comparisons are going to be valid with many a fantasy series. However, more than 1/2 of the main characters in WOT are women, which one cannot say for LOTR - I think that fact alone is enough to change the tone of the books considerably, even if the women in WOT are forever crossing their arms under their breasts or spanking one another. Does anyone else see similarities between WOT and Dune? I think the Aes Sedai are rip-offs of the Bene Gesserit, myself.

Rips-off of the Bene Gesserit? How about bastard offspring of the LOTR’s wizards and the Bene Gesserit…?

My current problem with WOT is, at this point, I can’t remember any of the plotlines, and so have to go back and skim previous books to regain the thread. When I do so, I realize just how contrived it all seems.

I’ve given up on the series.

Maybe WOT would’ve been better had it been broken into sub-trilogies, with clearly defined subsidiary climaxes, as opposed to this annoying, rambling, confused travallogue-filled-with-disfunctional-idiots.

Oh, and Jordan really needs to see a therapist about his issues with women.

Like the rest of you, I’m sick of the WOT. I don’t remembere which one I read last, but I remember being very very pissed off that Mat was left out of it. For the love of God, he’s the only interesting character in the series and you left him out. Go beat off a chipmonk, Jordan.

As for Goodkind, I just got back into the series with Faith of the Fallen and I cried at the end. It moved a little slow in parts, but I kept turning pages, and got a reward for it. I’ve requested the Pillars from the library and I’ll probably read it as soon as I get it.

Right now I’m reading the House Harkonnen from Frank Herbert’s son…don’t know if I’m going to like it or not…I’ll report back.

–==the sax man==–

Like the rest of you, I’m sick of the WOT. I don’t remembere which one I read last, but I remember being very very pissed off that Mat was left out of it. For the love of God, he’s the only interesting character in the series and you left him out. Go beat off a chipmonk, Jordan.

As for Goodkind, I just got back into the series with Faith of the Fallen and I cried at the end. It moved a little slow in parts, but I kept turning pages, and got a reward for it. I’ve requested the Pillars from the library and I’ll probably read it as soon as I get it.

Right now I’m reading the House Harkonnen from Frank Herbert’s son…don’t know if I’m going to like it or not…I’ll report back.

–==the sax man==–