# Robert Jr., Alan Jr., Paul Jr. - Why No Mary Jr., Elizabeth Jr.? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [May 16, 2011, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/robert-jr-alan-jr-paul-jr-why-no-mary-jr-elizabeth-jr/582115 "2011-05-16T17:54:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 7\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![DMark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@DMark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMark)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2011, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/robert-jr-alan-jr-paul-jr-why-no-mary-jr-elizabeth-jr/582115/1 "2011-05-16T17:54:49Z")
Just wondering why this tradition of calling men Junior if they are named after their father hasn’t caught on with women who name their daughters after themselves? For that matter, I don’t think I have ever met a Mary Jones III. Granted, this would only work for women who keep their name after marriage, but still…will this ever happen? ---
**Author:** ![ENugent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/4af34b/32.png) [@ENugent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ENugent)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2011, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/robert-jr-alan-jr-paul-jr-why-no-mary-jr-elizabeth-jr/582115/2 "2011-05-16T17:59:59Z")
Because the tradition assumes that women will change their last names when they grow up, so they’re not carrying on a line. Also, the formal title of the women is not the same, unlike the men: Mrs. John Smith and her daughter, Miss Jane Smith (even if they are both Jane Smith). ---
**Author:** ![DMark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@DMark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMark)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2011, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/robert-jr-alan-jr-paul-jr-why-no-mary-jr-elizabeth-jr/582115/3 "2011-05-16T18:48:05Z")
> [@ENugent](#): > > Because the tradition assumes that women will change their last names when they grow up, so they’re not carrying on a line. > > Also, the formal title of the women is not the same, unlike the men: Mrs. John Smith and her daughter, Miss Jane Smith (even if they are both Jane Smith). Good points, although technically I thought it was Mr. John Smith and Master John Smith while you are a kid. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2011, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/robert-jr-alan-jr-paul-jr-why-no-mary-jr-elizabeth-jr/582115/4 "2011-05-16T18:56:21Z")
edit: nevermind, misunderstood **DMark’s** post. ---
**Author:** ![Markxxx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5daacb/32.png) [@Markxxx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Markxxx)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2011, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/robert-jr-alan-jr-paul-jr-why-no-mary-jr-elizabeth-jr/582115/5 "2011-05-16T21:09:14Z")
I commonly hear Lucie Arnaz Jr. though it’s not correct. Don’t forget the 40s socialite Cobina Wright Jr ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2011, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/robert-jr-alan-jr-paul-jr-why-no-mary-jr-elizabeth-jr/582115/6 "2011-05-17T00:01:08Z")
> [@ENugent](#): > > Because the tradition assumes that women will change their last names when they grow up, so they’re not carrying on a line. > > Also, the formal title of the women is not the same, unlike the men: Mrs. John Smith and her daughter, Miss Jane Smith (even if they are both Jane Smith). From what I’ve observed in _Pride And Prejudice_, all the daughters’ formal titles were distinct. It appears in the novel that only the eldest is referred to as Miss Bennett; her younger sisters are Miss Firstname Bennett. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2011, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/robert-jr-alan-jr-paul-jr-why-no-mary-jr-elizabeth-jr/582115/7 "2011-05-17T01:01:25Z")
> [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](#): > > From what I’ve observed in _Pride And Prejudice_, all the daughters’ formal titles were distinct. It appears in the novel that only the eldest is referred to as Miss Bennett; her younger sisters are Miss Firstname Bennett. IIRC as soon as the eldest daughter marries her next youngest sister get’s to be “Miss Bennett”. > [@Markxxx](#): > > I commonly hear Lucie Arnaz Jr. though it’s not correct. Don’t forget the 40s socialite Cobina Wright Jr Lucie Arnaz doesn’t have the exact same given names as her mother (Lucie Desiree v. Lucille Desiree). Also her mother never (at least in public) used her husband’s name. She was always knows as “Miss Lucille Ball” as was/is traditional for actresses. Joan Crawford did initially name her adopted daughter “Joan Crawford Jr”, but later renamed her Christina.