As the OP, I can only wish every thread had such informative posts. Thank you.
Ah, so this is how it begins that we wind up with nothing but dubstep in the future.
Thank you Musicat for the information. I’ve collected some vintage sheet music that I want to eventually play. Fifth Dimension, The Association, The Carpenters, quite a bit of Ronnie Milsap and Conway Twitty. All in very good condition. My oldest piece is The Wabash Cannonball sheet music printed in the late 1930’s or early 40’s. Amazing what they sell on Ebay for just a few bucks. I only buy what I want to learn and play.
Now I’m wondering how accurate they are. I’ll find out when I start learning them. Key changes aren’t a big deal. I hope the notes and chords are right.
Stevie Wonder thinks the court made the wrong decision.
According to the linked article, “The Gaye family is currently investigating the similarity between Pharrell Williams’ Happy and Marvin Gaye’s Ain’t That Peculiar.”
The hell? I can’t hear any similarity there. If anyone might have a claim, I’d say it’s Velvet Hammer with a song titled, wait for it, “Happy.” (Not that I think it’s a rip-off, just a lot closer in feel and, well, even the title.)
Musicat, this is, for me, one of the best, most informative and interesting posts I’ve ever read on the Straight Dope Message Board. Thank you.
We need to convince Musicat to do one of those Ask the ____ Anything threads in Mundane.
Transcription has always challenged and fascinated me.
Thank you (all, as in y’all) for the compliments.
I can’t say much about 1930’s & 1040’s printed music (did Cole Porter have a copyist?), but I suspect the sheet music you have, probably piano/vocal arrangements, arrived at the music store in much the same way they did in the 1960’s and 70’s. Now we’re getting into some territory I have a little personal knowledge about.
First of all, any piano/vocal arrangement in the store, ca. 1950-1980, was not written by the composer. It may not have been proofread by the composer. The composer may not have ever seen it, ever, nor cared much (there are some exceptions, like Howard Brubeck’s transcriptions of brother Dave’s jazz works, which are outstanding, IMHO.)
Most likely, a copyist/arranger was handed a recording and a lead sheet and ordered to produce a piano/vocal suitable for Mrs. Average Grandma Piano Player Plunker; not too hard, not too challenging, but right now. This often meant that chords were simplified (a dominant seventh with a sharp nine and flat 5? Not a chance!)
Rhythms were routinely simplified, sort of pushed into a mold that eliminated more subtle syncopations. Did the singer of the popular recording stretch out a passage and not end exactly on a downbeat? That probably wasn’t reflected in the lead sheet, and wasn’t on the p/v arrangement, either.
So beware, if you are trying to recreate a song from printed music only (in the pop era, not the classical), it would be wise to listen to a recording of it as a guide. Don’t assume the written version is anything but someone’s approximation of it, and possibly an inaccurate one, too.
If anyone would like to see some of my work in this field, I invite you to search for a copy of Cat Steven’s Izitso album, the piano/vocal book. I did all the p/v arrangements in the book (I had nothing to do with the recording, which came first). I’m sure this was a little out of the ordinary at the time for several reasons. I was glad to show Cat Stevens my pencil sketches before they went to the engraver (he didn’t read music, so I played them for him), and I insisted on getting a proof copy back from the engraver to check for errors before it went to press. There were many, and the printer was quite upset that I wanted to proof it first; he said that never happened, and we were wasting time.
This venture was probably unusual in that I wrote a few counter-melody lines that I thought enhanced the arrangements. I was fully prepared to remove them if the composer had requested that, since they weren’t his compositions, but he liked them enough that we kept them. So if you listen to the recording along with the p/v arrangements, and don’t hear a line that’s printed, that might be mine!
I had to sign a legal document so I couldn’t claim composition royalties, but in exchange, I got to keep my name on the book’s credits.
One more anecdotal story that (I hope) illustrates the OP. I was asked to do a piano/vocal arrangement for Rosanne Cash’s Seven Year Ache, as the lovely string arrangements were written by the bass player, Emory Gordy, and he recommended me. I gave them a pencil sketch, and pointed out that even though most p/v arrangements put the melody in the right hand, this would be a very difficult song to play that way and still keep the great rhythm feel going. I suggested leaving the melody in the vocal line, and eliminating it from the accompaniment, and I wrote a terrific piano line that captured the orchestra, strings and all. I played both versions for the producer (or publisher, I don’t remember who), but he told me that no matter what I said, he was going to stick to convention, and insisted on having the melody line in the piano right hand, even if the rhythm was totally screwed up as a result.
I gave him my arrangement as I suggested; he paid me and tossed it out. If you can find this song in an eBay bin, whatever was published was not my writing.
And a word about keys…keeping with the Granny in Podunk concept, if a song was originally in a key with many sharps and flats, it will probably be transposed and printed with fewer. Take Five, IIRC, was originally played in E flat minor, but sheet music typically shows it in E minor. Scot Joplin’s Maple Leaf Rag was written in a sharp key (I forget which, but I’ve seen an early 1900’s copy), but it’s usually printed in C Major.
Indeed. Petty’s and Smith’s songs only sound similar for a very brief time. They are very different otherwise, at least they sound that way to me.
Thanks again Musicat. Alway enjoy learning about music and how it gets published.
I believe it’s in Ab. At least that’s the version I’m most familiar with. I’m not sure I’ve seen it in C. Are you thinking of “The Entertainer” perhaps? That one I’ve only seen in C.
The writers of Mark Ronson’s Uptown Funk have added the writers of the Gap Band’s Oops Upside Your Head to the official writing credits.
The move is seen as one which wouldn’t have happened previously but has been done because of the Blurred Lines plagiarism case.
TCMF-2L
You may be right about Maple Leaf Rag. I have a copy in a box in the basement that I really must dig into sometime, like Real Soon Now. It looks like a 1910 engraving source.
However, I have a copy of MLR in C in a book right here, Songs of the Gilded Age, published ca. 1960. It is in 2/4 time with sixteenth notes as the most common. The compilation is of 1890’s-era music, not a beginner’s piano book, somewhat intermediate in performing skill level. One of my favorite tune books to pull out and play with friends, although I confess I embellish the performance a little!
The piano performance on the Wiki page is played in A flat.
In the news today and the dissenting comments are sure to fuel a fire:
That’s the wrong decision and Nguyen is correct. Awful precedent.
Had no idea this was up for appeal. As before, awful ruling IMHO.
I just had this thread (and court case) in mind the other day.
I woke up with a melody line (a song refrain) in my head and couldn’t place it. While trying, I conjured up a different song with basically the same melodic refrain, which happened to be Pete Townsend’s “Let My Love Open the Door”.
Eventually I remembered enough lyrics to look up the other song[spoiler]
ELO’s “Can’t Get it Out of My Head”… the refrain part from both songs [/spoiler]
Anyway, yeah, people come up with the same lines sometimes. It really doesn’t make it plaigiarism. A snippet of sound that short and basic is going to occur in more than one composition.
And I agree with those who say this was a bad ruling.
The guy who wrote the theme music for Jeopardy! is hearing footsteps belonging to the guy who wrote ”I’m a Little Teapot”.
Took me a moment.
Yeah, the last four measures, dead on.