# Robot umpires!
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/robot-umpires/836883
**Category:** The Game Room
**Created:** [July 11, 2019, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/robot-umpires/836883 "2019-07-11T02:59:55Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)
#### Post date: [July 11, 2019, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/robot-umpires/836883/1 "2019-07-11T02:59:55Z")
Seriously: [Robot umpires!](https://apnews.com/93f7e8be7f404ff2a6eadf2e9295c9d3)
> [@](#):
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> The independent Atlantic League became the first American professional baseball league to let a computer call balls and strikes Wednesday night at its All-Star Game. Plate umpire Brian deBrauwere wore an earpiece connected to an iPhone in his pocket and relayed the call upon receiving it from a TrackMan computer system that uses Doppler radar.
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> He crouched in his normal position behind the catcher and signaled balls and strikes.
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> “Until we can trust this system 100 percent, I still have to go back there with the intention of getting a pitch correct because if the system fails, it doesn’t pick a pitch up or if it registers a pitch that’s a foot-and-a-half off the plate as a strike, I have to be prepared to correct that,” deBrauwere said before the game.
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> It didn’t appear deBrauwere had any delay receiving the calls at first but players noticed a big difference.
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> “One time I already had caught the ball back from the catcher and he signaled strike,” said pitcher Daryl Thompson, who didn’t realize the technology was being used until after he disagreed with a call.
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> Infielder L.J. Mazzilli said a few times hitters who struck out lingered an extra second or so in the batter’s box waiting on a called third strike.
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> “The future is crazy but it’s cool to see the direction of baseball,” Mazzilli said.
I posted the news in the [What’s new, Atlas?](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=842128) thread but I really wanted to hear what baseball fans think of this. It’s already generating some controversy, with some saying that the human ump shouldn’t be allowed to change the bot’s call.
> [@](#):
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> The umpires have the ability to override the computer, which considers a pitch a strike when the ball bounces and then crosses the zone. TrackMan also does not evaluate check swings.
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> Former big leaguer Kirk Nieuwenhuis doesn’t like the idea of giving umps veto power.
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> “If the umpire still has discretion, it defeats the purpose,” said Nieuwenhuis, who batted .221 with 31 homers in 978 at-bats with the Mets, Angels and Brewers.
> [@](#):
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> The experiment with radar-tracking technology to call balls and strikes was originally expected to begin at the start of the season but experienced some delays.
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> Atlantic League President Rick White said it’s going to be implemented league-wide over the next few weeks.
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> “After that, we’re relatively confident that’s it’s going to spread through organized baseball,” White said. “We’re very excited about what this portends not only for our league but for the future of baseball. What we know is technology can help umpires be more accurate and we’re committed to that. We think the Atlantic League is being a pioneer for all of the sport.”
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> Sword said MLB hasn’t received much pushback from umpires.
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> “One of our focuses is not to replace the umpire,” Sword said. “In fact, we’re trying empower the umpire with technology. The home plate umpire has a lot more to do than call balls and strikes and he’s going to be asked to do all of that. We’re in touch with our umpires union and this is the first step of the process.”
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> DeBrauwere had no issue with it.
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> “This is just another plate job and I just get a little help on this one so I feel very relaxed going into this one,” he said.
“It won’t replace humans”…. suuuuuuure it won’t. By the way, have I mentioned this sure-fire investment opportunity of mine to you yet? 😃
What do y’all think? Welcome change? Hideous idea? A little of both?
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### Author:  [@snfaulkner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snfaulkner)
#### Post date: [July 11, 2019, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/robot-umpires/836883/2 "2019-07-11T03:14:14Z")
[ ](https://morbotron.com/meme/S01E05/212540.jpg?b64lines=IE9oLCBhbmQgSSBzdXBwb3NlIAogcGl0Y2gtby1tYXQgNTAwMCB3YXMgCiBqdXN0IGEgbW9kaWZpZWQgaG93aXR6ZXIu)
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### Author:  [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)
#### Post date: [July 11, 2019, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/robot-umpires/836883/3 "2019-07-11T13:18:27Z")
It’s a fantastic idea. Long overdue. The important thing is to get the calls right and now the tech exists to do that.
You still need a home plate ump. Were I the King of Baseball, MLB would have MORE umps on the field, not fewer, even with robot umps calling balls and strikes.
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### Author:  [@zimaane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zimaane)
#### Post date: [July 11, 2019, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/robot-umpires/836883/4 "2019-07-11T15:22:15Z")
Correct me if I am wrong, but the technology doesn’t exist for an AI to call whether a runner was safe or out. So you still need a home plate umpire. Also for things like catcher’s interference.
While I am generally in favor of this, I wonder how well the computer can call the vertical part of a ball/strike. How does it know where the batter’s knees are?
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### Author:  [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)
#### Post date: [July 11, 2019, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/robot-umpires/836883/5 "2019-07-11T15:37:47Z")
> [@zimaane](#):
>
> Correct me if I am wrong, but the technology doesn’t exist for an AI to call whether a runner was safe or out. So you still need a home plate umpire. Also for things like catcher’s interference.
>
> While I am generally in favor of this, I wonder how well the computer can call the vertical part of a ball/strike. How does it know where the batter’s knees are?
TV cameras? That’s how ball tracking works in cricket, and the batsman’s knees would be visible on camera. But note that the total system is not completely “AI”; for instance, to figure out whether someone was run out the (human) umpire can bring up slo-mo HD footage, it’s not completely automated.
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### Author:  [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)
#### Post date: [July 11, 2019, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/robot-umpires/836883/6 "2019-07-11T16:01:01Z")
I 100% endorse using technology to call balls and strikes. It’s going to be more accurate than a human. You still need a human home plate umpire to adjudicate all the other duties though (and there is plenty for them to do).
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### Author:  [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)
#### Post date: [July 11, 2019, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/robot-umpires/836883/7 "2019-07-11T16:03:15Z")
Some say that human umps and vague judgement calls are an inherent part of the game. I’m not one of them. The purpose of the umps is to get the calls right, and if a machine can do that better than the human, then it should be a machine’s job.
OK, so this system still can’t account for things like bounced pitches, so you still need the human for that. That just means that there’s still room for improvement. You have to make the imperfect tech before you can develop the perfect tech.
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### Author:  [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)
#### Post date: [July 11, 2019, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/robot-umpires/836883/8 "2019-07-11T17:04:16Z")
I expect that the implementation of an AI strike/ball caller will result in a modification of the strike zone’s upper and lower limits, so that those can be easily determined by an AI.
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### Author:  [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)
#### Post date: [July 11, 2019, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/robot-umpires/836883/9 "2019-07-11T17:20:59Z")
I am somewhat surprised at the enthusiastic welcome the technology is getting here; that’s fantastic!
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### Author:  [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)
#### Post date: [July 11, 2019, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/robot-umpires/836883/10 "2019-07-11T17:48:22Z")
They also talked about stealing 1B and moving the mounds back…fuck that.
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### Author:  [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)
#### Post date: [July 11, 2019, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/robot-umpires/836883/11 "2019-07-11T17:50:57Z")
> [@zimaane](#):
>
> Correct me if I am wrong, but the technology doesn’t exist for an AI to call whether a runner was safe or out. So you still need a home plate umpire. Also for things like catcher’s interference.
>
> While I am generally in favor of this, I wonder how well the computer can call the vertical part of a ball/strike. How does it know where the batter’s knees are?
You could make tech to call runners safe at 1B. But personally i think replay is close enough without spending millions on chipped balls and bases.
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### Author:  [@Cardigan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cardigan)
#### Post date: [July 11, 2019, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/robot-umpires/836883/12 "2019-07-11T17:58:43Z")
Looking forward to the day that advances in AI and robotics technology renders the ballplayers themselves superfluous. I’m sure a mechanical batter could do a much better job of knocking 'em out of the park.
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### Author:  [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)
#### Post date: [July 11, 2019, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/robot-umpires/836883/13 "2019-07-11T18:03:08Z")
> [@Cardigan](#):
>
> Looking forward to the day that advances in AI and robotics technology renders the ballplayers themselves superfluous. I’m sure a mechanical batter could do a much better job of knocking 'em out of the park.
> **[Cyber Stadium Series—Base Wars](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Base_Wars)**
>
> Cyber Stadium Series—Base Wars is a baseball video game for the Nintendo Entertainment System (NES).
> Developed by Konami for the NES, and published by Ultra Games, Cyber Stadium Series—Base Wars was released in May or June 1991 in the United States; the game did not receive a European release. A baseball video game for one or two players, the ROM cartridge features the ability to save games, whether playing either an individual game or the ten-game pennant race.
> In a 24th century where baseb...
Hell yeah, I played that as a kid!
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### Author:  [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barkis_is_Willin)
#### Post date: [July 11, 2019, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/robot-umpires/836883/14 "2019-07-11T18:18:31Z")
First of all, I loved Base Wars. Safe/out calls were settled by robots fighting.
Second of all, yes please, more computers calling balls and strikes. There is no good reason not to in MLB. But the umpires have a fairly strong union.
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### Author:  [@Ashtura](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ashtura)
#### Post date: [July 11, 2019, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/robot-umpires/836883/15 "2019-07-11T18:22:17Z")
Calling balls and strikes should definitely be done solely by computer.
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### Author:  [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)
#### Post date: [July 11, 2019, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/robot-umpires/836883/16 "2019-07-11T18:33:55Z")
> [@DSYoungEsq](#):
>
> I expect that the implementation of an AI strike/ball caller will result in a modification of the strike zone’s upper and lower limits, so that those can be easily determined by an AI.
If an umpire can figure out where a man’s knees and torso are, why can’t the guy setting the Statcast machine?
> [@Cardigan](#):
>
> Looking forward to the day that advances in AI and robotics technology renders the ballplayers themselves superfluous. I’m sure a mechanical batter could do a much better job of knocking 'em out of the park
Obviously this is a sarcastic argument against the idea - and it’s senseless. I have never, ever understood why anyone makes this argument.
Saying that robot umpires is somehow as bad as robot players is like saying that taking a car to the game as as bad as robot players. The umpires aren’t the point of the game. I don’t pay my money to watch the umps, and in truth, no one does unless they’re the ump’s family. The game is about the players, and their humanity is what makes the sport interesting. The humanity of the umps does not make the sport better, it makes it worse, because it detracts from the impact of the players. The game should be decided by the actions of the players. When the ump blows a call, the players’ actions are rendered irrelevant; the runner beat the throw, but he was called out because of the ump’s mistake.
> [@Dale Sams](#):
>
> You could make tech to call runners safe at 1B. But personally i think replay is close enough without spending millions on chipped balls and bases.
In addition to the fact that it would be hard to figure out how to do this, it’s just not a very big problem.
Umps actually don’t blow very many calls on the cases. When they do really, really blow one, there’s now instant replay - that system could be wildly improved and sped up, but it’s there. They still inexplicably miss calls, but it’s very rare.
The accuracy rate of ball and strike calls is dreadful; depending what source you believe and how you define a close call, they probably miss a third of all close ball and strike calls and even the odd one that isn’t close at all. Those calls are NOT always evenly distruibuted, either from team to team or situation to situation. Home plate umps affect the outcomes of games a lot more than we are maybe willing to admit, and we have the tech to fix it right now.
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### Author:  [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)
#### Post date: [July 11, 2019, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/robot-umpires/836883/17 "2019-07-11T20:03:37Z")
Personally, I’d tell the manager before the game stuff like “I call a high zone, but you probably also know that. And I’m gonna call them if if they cross the GD plate, not based on where they end up. The edge of the plate IS the plate. Thats a strike. If i absolutely blow one, I’ll make it right somehow, don’t bother bitching at me and cursing at me.”
I’d try and be a friendly ump.
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### Author:  [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)
#### Post date: [July 11, 2019, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/robot-umpires/836883/18 "2019-07-11T23:26:08Z")
> [@RickJay](#):
>
> If an umpire can figure out where a man’s knees and torso are, why can’t the guy setting the Statcast machine?
The point is to make it so that a human doesn’t have to get involved in that at all. That way, you don’t have any possible complaint that human bias was involved.
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### Author:  [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)
#### Post date: [July 12, 2019, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/robot-umpires/836883/19 "2019-07-12T00:00:19Z")
I’m in favor of robo balls and strikes. I wish were far enough along that we could have android umps that would yell _steeeeeeeee-rike three_ and make dramatic _yer out_ gestures.
Take a look at [this pic.](https://img.washingtonpost.com/news/fancy-stats/wp-content/uploads/sites/28/2015/07/Ian-Desmond-.png) Will a ball that just kisses the zone like the one on the right be considered a strike on all four sides?
It will be interesting to see what Manfred does with power inherent in determining the zone. Much tinkering will occur, I suspect.
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### Author:  [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)
#### Post date: [July 16, 2019, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/robot-umpires/836883/20 "2019-07-16T23:30:13Z")
> [@Dale\_Sams](#):
>
> Personally, I’d tell the manager before the game stuff like "I call a high zone, …
And that’s why we need technology - too many umps with personal strike zones and not rulebook strike zones.
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