# Rock n Roll replacements, stand-ins, and hired guns **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 3, 2008, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rock-n-roll-replacements-stand-ins-and-hired-guns/461805 "2008-09-03T03:20:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2008, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rock-n-roll-replacements-stand-ins-and-hired-guns/461805/41 "2008-09-05T15:51:35Z")
Col. Bruce Hampton is the nexus for a lot of interconnected musical relationships in the trippier parts of the Atlanta jam scene. He’s a very underground figure himself, but musicians who’ve played with him have gone on to join bands including the Allman Brothers, Derek Trucks Band, Widespread Panic, Leftover Salmon, The Dead, Phil Lesh and Friends, and other bands that you guys haven’t heard of and that I haven’t heard of either. Hampton also helped created the HORDE tours of the early 90s and is responsible for what I consider the best band name ever, The Aquarium Rescue Unit. ---
**Author:** ![Simmerdown](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simmerdown/32/14859_2.png) [@Simmerdown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simmerdown)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2008, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rock-n-roll-replacements-stand-ins-and-hired-guns/461805/42 "2008-09-05T18:55:30Z")
The Clash needed TWO guitarists when they thought they could replace Mick Jones – Nick Sheppard and Vince White. Didn’t work out so well. ---
**Author:** ![Don\_Draper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b2d939/32.png) [@Don\_Draper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_Draper)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2008, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rock-n-roll-replacements-stand-ins-and-hired-guns/461805/43 "2008-09-05T19:06:47Z")
> [@cochrane](#): > > Mickey Thomas, who sang “Fooled Around and Fell in Love” with the Elvin Bishop Group, became the lead vocalist of Jefferson Starship when Grace Slick and Marty Balin left the group in 1979. When Slick rejoined in 1981, he and Slick shared vocalist duties. After Paul Kantner left in 1984 and Slick left for good in 1988, Thomas was the leader of the band, which had been renamed Starship after Kantner left. Although perhaps the best-known member from either Jefferson Airplane, or Jefferson Starship, Grace Slick herself was a replacement for original band member Signe Anderson, who left the band after having a baby. Signe is one of the great “what if’s” of the rock era She performed only on the Airplane’s first Lp “Jefferson Airplane Takes Off” and even then only takes the lead for one entire song. But she did show that she had the vocal chops to have become a major, major talent. (Although, w/o Slick, the Airplane wouldn’t have had either of their two biggest hit songs.) In more recent times, the band 10,000 Maniacs was largely built around singer/chief songwriter Natalie Merchant. When she quit the band to go on her own, the band inducted Mary Ramsey, who had been part of a splinter/spin-off group called “John & Mary.” Mary was technically a better sing than Merchant - a larger vocal range, could hit notes with greater clarity. But she didn’t have Merchant’s trenchant, opinionated personality that made the group so distinctive (whether you loved or hated them.) ---
**Author:** ![sqweels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f19dbf/32.png) [@sqweels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sqweels)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2008, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rock-n-roll-replacements-stand-ins-and-hired-guns/461805/44 "2008-09-06T02:59:26Z")
Successful bands’ careers tend to roughly adhere to a certain pattern of phases marked by lineup changes: [ul] [li]The Pre-Classic Lineup - founding members often depart around the time the band hits it big (think Pete Best).[/li][li]The Classic Lineup - the members when the band became famous and who the public will always expect to see.[/li][li]The Post-Classic Lineup - one or two members have been replaced, but a core of key members remain to maintain legitimacy.[/li][li]The Semi-Bogus Lineup - key members have departed and only a couple of secondary members remain. Sometimes competing lineups vie for the use of the name.[/li][li]The Post Breakup Reunion - the Classic Lineup, or the equivalent of a Post-Classic lineup, reunites.[/li][li]The Post Reunion Semi-Semi-Bogus Lineup - and so on and son on. Better than nothing if you’re a fan.[/li][/ul] ---
**Author:** ![dalej42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@dalej42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalej42)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2008, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rock-n-roll-replacements-stand-ins-and-hired-guns/461805/45 "2008-09-06T03:16:40Z")
The very obvious Genesis. 1. Peter Gabriel as lead vocal replaced by Phil Collins 2. Phil Collins as lead vocal replaced by Ray Wilson. 3. Phil Collins returns to Genesis 4. Guitarist Anthony Phillips is replaced by Steve Hackett 5. Drummer John Mayhew is replaced by Phil Collins 6. Steve Hackett leaves Genesis. ---
**Author:** ![Cluricaun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/bb73d2/32.png) [@Cluricaun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cluricaun)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2008, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rock-n-roll-replacements-stand-ins-and-hired-guns/461805/46 "2008-09-06T05:21:18Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Hampton also helped created the HORDE tours of the early 90s and is responsible for what I consider the best band name ever, The Aquarium Rescue Unit. Which also has connections to Phish through the banjo player Reverand Jeff Mosier who, along with Col. Bruce, has appeared live with Phish on stage and according to Wiki… “The remaining original members started to leave as they received offers from other larger acts. Jeff Sipe joined with Jonas Hellborg and the late Shawn Lane in 1995, and over the years has played with Leftover Salmon, Susan Tedeschi, and Trey Anastasio. Currently Jeff Sipe is playing drums for Keller Williams’s new band the WMDs. In 1997, Oteil Burbridge replaced Allen Woody in the Allman Brothers Band. Oteil also played in former Phish keyboardist Page McConnell’s side project Vida Blue, as well as on Trey Anastasio’s Surrender to the Air. Oteil is still playing with the ABB while writing, recording and touring with his own band Oteil and the Peacemakers. Jimmy Herring co-founded Jazz Is Dead in 1998, then toured and recorded with Frogwings, the Allman Brothers Band, Project Z, Phil Lesh and Friends, and the Dead. In 2006 Jimmy was asked to join Widespread Panic with whom he has recorded and toured extensively.” ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2008, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rock-n-roll-replacements-stand-ins-and-hired-guns/461805/47 "2008-09-06T05:40:01Z")
> [@Gatopescado](#): > > Not sure if there is enough band-width (nice pun, huh?) to get into The Uriah Heep Saga. Y’know, I’ve been getting into how good a Prog Rock band they were. And have demonstrated that, with “The Magician’s Birthday,” they hold as valid claim to being the REAL Spinal Tap as anybody. Though ST could be anybody. As I recall, Rod Stewart said as he stomped out of the movie, “I thought this was supposed to be a comedy.” And I pass along to said chilluns, “No, it’s the biography of every band, ever.” ---
**Author:** ![blondebear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blondebear/32/1022_2.png) [@blondebear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blondebear)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2008, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rock-n-roll-replacements-stand-ins-and-hired-guns/461805/48 "2008-09-06T17:08:25Z")
The current touring version of The Who has an odd mix of non-members. On drums Zak has the unenviable job of sitting where Keith used to. Kenny did a workman-like job, but he just didn’t fit in. Simon Phillips was quite capable, but he didn’t work out either. Most fans think Zak is the spark that pushes Pete up to the next level, and we’re glad he finally quit Oasis. Pino Palladino is a very talented bass player, but he can’t take John’s place at the “real” lead guitarist of the band. Pete’s brother Simon came on board when John couldn’t sing the high parts anymore. Now he adds some rhythm guitar muscle that makes up for the massive volume that they used so effectively. Rabbit Bundrick’s keyboards eliminate the need for some backing tracks, and he gets to stretch out once in awhile when they extend a song like _“Relay”_. They’re a shadow of the band that commanded the stage in the 60’s and 70’s\*. But you can still hear the old passion when they encore with _“Sparks”_. You can close your eyes and almost feel like you’re at Leeds. \*PBS stations are showing the newly-released film of Kilburn in 1977. Keith was in sad shape, Entwistle was drunk, and they hadn’t played a gig in a long time. There’s still some magic, though, and it’s worth watching. ---
**Author:** ![Proudest\_Monkey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/proudest_monkey/32/13257_2.png) [@Proudest\_Monkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Proudest_Monkey)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2008, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rock-n-roll-replacements-stand-ins-and-hired-guns/461805/49 "2008-09-06T20:38:54Z")
When Dave Matthews Band sax player, Leroi Moore, was injured earlier this summer, Jeff Coffin of Bela Fleck and the Flecktones stepped in to blow for them on tour. Sadly, Roi passed away in August–maybe Coffin will replace him permanently. ---
**Author:** ![Scissorjack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c67d28/32.png) [@Scissorjack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scissorjack)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2008, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rock-n-roll-replacements-stand-ins-and-hired-guns/461805/50 "2008-09-06T22:03:23Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > Y’know, I’ve been getting into how good a Prog Rock band they were. And have demonstrated that, with “The Magician’s Birthday,” they hold as valid claim to being the REAL Spinal Tap as anybody. I’ve thought the same thing about their song “The Wizard”: He was the wizard of a thousand kings And I chanced to meet him one night wandering. He told me tales and he drank my wine Me and my magic man, just kinda feelin’ fine. You have to admire any band that can write lyrics like that with a straight face. ---
**Author:** ![Nonsuch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nonsuch/32/2922_2.png) [@Nonsuch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nonsuch)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2008, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rock-n-roll-replacements-stand-ins-and-hired-guns/461805/51 "2008-09-06T22:39:21Z")
> [@sqweels](#): > > Successful bands’ careers tend to roughly adhere to a certain pattern of phases marked by lineup changes: > > [ul] > [li]The Pre-Classic Lineup - founding members often depart around the time the band hits it big (think Pete Best).[/li][li]The Classic Lineup - the members when the band became famous and who the public will always expect to see.[/li][li]The Post-Classic Lineup - one or two members have been replaced, but a core of key members remain to maintain legitimacy.[/li][li]The Semi-Bogus Lineup - key members have departed and only a couple of secondary members remain. Sometimes competing lineups vie for the use of the name.[/li][li]The Post Breakup Reunion - the Classic Lineup, or the equivalent of a Post-Classic lineup, reunites.[/li][li]The Post Reunion Semi-Semi-Bogus Lineup - and so on and son on. Better than nothing if you’re a fan.[/li][/ul] A very apt summary. ---
**Author:** ![Scissorjack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c67d28/32.png) [@Scissorjack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scissorjack)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2008, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rock-n-roll-replacements-stand-ins-and-hired-guns/461805/52 "2008-09-06T23:52:18Z")
> [@sqweels](#): > > Successful bands’ careers tend to roughly adhere to a certain pattern of phases marked by lineup changes: > > [ul] > [li]The Pre-Classic Lineup - founding members often depart around the time the band hits it big (think Pete Best).[/li][li]The Classic Lineup - the members when the band became famous and who the public will always expect to see.[/li][li]The Post-Classic Lineup - one or two members have been replaced, but a core of key members remain to maintain legitimacy.[/li][li]The Semi-Bogus Lineup - key members have departed and only a couple of secondary members remain. Sometimes competing lineups vie for the use of the name.[/li][li]The Post Breakup Reunion - the Classic Lineup, or the equivalent of a Post-Classic lineup, reunites.[/li][li]The Post Reunion Semi-Semi-Bogus Lineup - and so on and son on. Better than nothing if you’re a fan.[/li][/ul] The Semi-Bogus lineups, pre- and post- Reunion, have a 50/50 chance of containing the original bass player and drummer as the members still conferring legitimacy: on one hand they have the least writing credits and need the money; on the other hand they’re the ones most likely to have torpedoed the band by drinking themselves to death in 1979. ---
**Author:** ![imthjckaz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/imthjckaz/32/3223_2.png) [@imthjckaz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/imthjckaz)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2008, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rock-n-roll-replacements-stand-ins-and-hired-guns/461805/53 "2008-09-07T00:53:07Z")
> [@control-z](#): > > Speaking of hired guns, Guns & Roses. As it semi-exists right now the only original member left is Axl. Slash, Duff and Matt, formerly of GnR, are now in Velvet Revolver. But Velvet Revolver just parted ways with their lead singer, Scott Weiland, who is formerly of and again with Stone Temple Pilots. Whew. And to complete the circle, maybe Axl will join Velvet Revolver. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rock-n-roll-replacements-stand-ins-and-hired-guns/461805.md?page=2)