# Rock Of Ages, or Holy $%#@ ? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 4, 2004, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rock-of-ages-or-holy/243391 "2004-05-04T01:28:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2004, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rock-of-ages-or-holy/243391/1 "2004-05-04T01:28:05Z")
Is it my imagination, or does most Christian “rock” music consist of happy smiley people cheerfully singing variations of “I am an unworthy sinner incapable of putting the cap back on a tube of toothpaste without Your help-if anything in my life goes wrong it’s certainly my fault, and I give You credit for anything and everything that goes right!” This is the impression I got after listening to a Christian rock station all day today, then watching Christian videos on a local access station this afternoon. Disregarding the ten to fifteen year old stolen song rifts, artists with 80’s era big hair and “so edgy” clothes that look like they just came back from the dry cleaner, what you have left looks like one big S&M festival, with the Christians wearing their Holy Nipple Clamps of Antioch gleefully licking the Blessed Boots of The Lord. The only other kind of music I heard was very bland “love” songs that could have passed for music on any Contemporary station, providing you substituted the name “Julie” for “Jesus”(I’m not sure which kind of music is more disturbing, actually-_you_ be the judge.) Have I totally misjudged Christian rock, or is this it? ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2004, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rock-of-ages-or-holy/243391/2 "2004-05-04T01:49:38Z")
I don’t generally listen to Christian Rock, but occasionally will stop as I’m channel surfing in the car. I too find most of it rather bland or sappy, but occasionally I find a song that’s worth listening to. I prefer mainstream songs that carry a message, rather than “religious” songs (Joan Osborne’s _One of Us_ springs to mind). My wife, who has been a devout Christian since the day she was born, refuses to listen to Christian Rock. ---
**Author:** ![Briny\_Deep](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/briny_deep/32/17188_2.png) [@Briny\_Deep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Briny_Deep)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2004, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rock-of-ages-or-holy/243391/3 "2004-05-04T01:57:14Z")
“Christian Rock” is perhaps the one topic on which I am in complete agreement with Jerry Falwell. :eek: It’s both bad music, and bad worship. Please, stop it now. ---
**Author:** ![ddgryphon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/8c91f0/32.png) [@ddgryphon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ddgryphon)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2004, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rock-of-ages-or-holy/243391/4 "2004-05-04T02:45:08Z")
Nowadays, you’re basically right. They’ve blandized Christian Rock to sound just like what is on the radio, and watered down the message so they can maybe trick people into listening to it, thinking it is just another radio station. Back when it all first started up, there were some really good musicians, doing some really good work, with hit you in the face Christian messages. Sometime in the 80’s it basically became the auditory equivalent of “Jesus is the Reason for the Season” Chip and Dip sets. In many ways it is no worse than bland pop (Hillary Duff and other manufactured sounding pop crap) and it certainly isn’t any better. Gone are the days of the Ressurection Band, 2nd Chapter of Acts, Kieth Green and others who really had some musical chops and an uncompromised message. If you’re bothered by the message you’ll never like the music, and if you don’t like the music the message doesn’t matter. Kind of hard to win, but it does make a lot of parents feel better. Just on a fun side note, I saw Six Pence None The Richer for sale in a Christian book store – Did you know they were Christian – neither did I, which begs the question, if you can’t tell there is a difference, how do you know there is a difference? Side note – who knew Prince’s song Cream was about getting to the top of your profession. It was Prince, so I just assumed it was about sex – I’ve always had trouble figuring out his lyrics through that annyoing squeal thing he does. And in conclusion – there are probably some good songs buried in the mess of Contemporary Christian Pop, but like so much popular music, it it is lost under a mass of junk. ---
**Author:** ![ultrafilter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3d9bf3/32.png) [@ultrafilter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultrafilter)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2004, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rock-of-ages-or-holy/243391/5 "2004-05-04T02:50:29Z")
The problem is, most Christian bands are Christians first and musicians second. They want to get Jesus out to the largest number of people possible, and to do so, they’ll copy whatever is popular at the moment (e.g., Creed). The end effect is that at least 95% of Christian rock is crap, but to be honest, that’s what it’s like for most styles of music: there are a few genuine innovators, and a whole lot of followers. As far as I know, the same effect occurs with Christian music in other styles (rap, metal, etc.), but I honestly haven’t checked out too much. ---
**Author:** ![Flutterby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Flutterby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flutterby)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2004, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rock-of-ages-or-holy/243391/6 "2004-05-04T03:28:00Z")
There are a couple of songs I remember with fondness from my Christian Club days… That’s dance club… yep… they had a dance club for teens. I used to go nearly every Saturday and dance to the music for something to do. Every so often they’d have someone come in and talk to us about God and the music was the popular stuff… also salted with Christian Rock with such classics as Jesus Freak > [@](#): > > I saw a man with tat on his big fat belly > It wiggled around like marmalade jelly > It took me a while to catch what it said > Cause I had to match the rhythm > Of his belly with my head > ’jesus saves’ is what it raved in a typical tattoo green > He stood on a box in the middle of the city > And claimed he had a dream > > (chorus) > What will people think > When they hear that I’m a jesus freak > What will people do when they find that it’s true > I don’t really care if they label me a jesus freak > There ain’t no disguising the truth > > [Jesus Freak by DC Talk](http://www.lyricsfreak.com/d/dc-talk/37735.html) And I have a special place in my heart for Newsboys Breakfast In Hell, just for the chorus > [@](#): > > When the toast is burned > And all the milk has turned > And Captain Crunch is waving farewell > When the big one finds you > May this song remind you > That they don’t serve breakfast in hell I don’t know of anything new really, but what I do remember most was (and is) pretty bad. ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2004, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rock-of-ages-or-holy/243391/7 "2004-05-04T03:43:50Z")
> [@ddgryphon](#): > > Nowadays, you’re basically right. They’ve blandized Christian Rock to sound just like what is on the radio, and watered down the message so they can maybe trick people into listening to it, thinking it is just another radio station. Back when it all first started up, there were some really good musicians, doing some really good work, with hit you in the face Christian messages. You must be joking. I grew up in the early 80s, and I assure you that Christian Rock sucked every bit as much ass back then as it does today. Petra? The Rez Band? None of them had 10% as much songwriting or playing talent as, for instance, Cutting Crew. ---
**Author:** ![wolfman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a8b319/32.png) [@wolfman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfman)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2004, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rock-of-ages-or-holy/243391/8 "2004-05-04T03:45:07Z")
As Hank Hill said “Can’t you see you’re not making Christianity better? You’re just making rock worse.” ---
**Author:** ![Loopydude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e56c9b/32.png) [@Loopydude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopydude)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2004, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rock-of-ages-or-holy/243391/9 "2004-05-04T03:46:55Z")
I always found Christians most compelling musically when they’d fallen low and were pleading with Jesus to save them. By “low” I mean, you know, strung out on drugs, married the wrong woman who cheated and left, found Satan in a bottle, sold their soul for a woman or for instrumental chops, and so forth. I think some people call this kind of music “The Blues”. If I recall, this sort of music sired all worthy Rock and Roll, and is so good it could damn near convert the likes of me. An old roomate once did me the disservice of playing an antire CD of “Jars of Clay” for one night, ostensibly for my entertainment. It somehow managed to be insufferably bland and relentlessly self-reproachful (except for a couple numbers which were, creepily, something like standard love ballads, only to Jesus), and consisted of a recycled mix of early-to-mid 80’s alt-rock cliche backed up by the whitest excuse for a hip-hop backbeat I have ever encountered. What, you guys are sinners? Playing that rubbish? Jesus H. Christ on a pogo stick, you simpering mopesters couldn’t get detention at military school! Go snort some cocaine and catch some o’ th’ clap, then you can bitch-squeal to me about sinnin’, OK? ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2004, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rock-of-ages-or-holy/243391/10 "2004-05-04T04:02:41Z")
I find that much Christian rock doesn’t use the words God or Jesus. Just a lot of Lord. This makes it easy to pretend the singer is actually praising Cthulu. “Lord, I lift your name on high. Lord, I love to sing your praises.” Yep, they’re singing about Cthulu “My life is in you, Lord. My strength is in you, Lord.” Cthulu “God of wonders beyond our galaxy” Could that lyric be more Cthulu? ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2004, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rock-of-ages-or-holy/243391/11 "2004-05-04T04:04:17Z")
[Cartman]I wanna get down on my knees and start pleasin’ Jesus. Feel His love rain down on my face.[/Cartman] (If you _haven’t_ seen the South Park episode that comes from, you’ve really missed something!) Yup. It pretty much sucks and always has. A friend of mine in high school (this would be _last_ century) was a big Stryper fan, kept calling them heavy metal. Sounded more like Journey to me. ---
**Author:** ![Doomtrain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/0ea827/32.png) [@Doomtrain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doomtrain)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2004, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rock-of-ages-or-holy/243391/12 "2004-05-04T04:17:17Z")
I was a metalhead in my formative youth. My uber-religious cousin was over one day and impressed the lot of us metalhead kids by saying he, too, enjoyed the fine strains of heavy metal. We asked what bands he liked and he rattled off this list of bands none of us–schooled in the metal arts, mind–had heard of. “What kinda metal is that?” We asked. “Why, it’s Christian Heavy Metal!” He said. Oh, how we laughed. He was offended and said he’d show us how to rock. FOR JESUS! And he played some of it for us. It proved, as the man known as Sammy Hagar once said, “There’s only one way to rock.” Jesus wasn’t it. And we laughed HARDER. This stuff is/was so bad that it blew away our pre-conceived notions of badness and reached a whole new plane of suck. Though the most amusing “Christian rock” thing has to be those commercials for some CD anthology (from Time Life?) where they show the crowds and it’s very white bread geeky kids making The O Face for Jesus. ---
**Author:** ![Flutterby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Flutterby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flutterby)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2004, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rock-of-ages-or-holy/243391/13 "2004-05-04T04:36:10Z")
> [@GMRyujin](#): > > Though the most amusing “Christian rock” thing has to be those commercials for some CD anthology (from Time Life?) where they show the crowds and it’s very white bread geeky kids making The O Face for Jesus. I’ve been to something like that. Very creepy, especially as there were people trying to mosh to the bands playing and about halfway through the exhorted us to accept Jesus into our hearts and lives. Of course when I was younger I hung out with a lot of Christians so I went to a lot of interesting things like that. ---
**Author:** ![Beauty\_Personified](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e480ec/32.png) [@Beauty\_Personified](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beauty_Personified)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2004, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rock-of-ages-or-holy/243391/14 "2004-05-04T05:05:58Z")
> [@ultrafilter](#): > > The problem is, most Christian bands are Christians first and musicians second. They want to get Jesus out to the largest number of people possible, and to do so, they’ll copy whatever is popular at the moment (e.g., Creed). > > The end effect is that at least 95% of Christian rock is crap, but to be honest, that’s what it’s like for most styles of music: there are a few genuine innovators, and a whole lot of followers. > > As far as I know, the same effect occurs with Christian music in other styles (rap, metal, etc.), but I honestly haven’t checked out too much. Actually, I’d say 95% of _all_ music (not just Christian) is crap. And the same goes for most of the arts today - film, literature, painting, television… There’s good stuff out there somewhere, but you have to wade through all the crap to find it. And the really crappy stuff tends to float, burying the good stuff. That said, the only Christian album I have is DC Talk’s _Jesus Freak_, which - with my meager CD collection in alphabetical order - sits right next to The Cult’s self-titled album, and not that far away from a few Black Sabbath CDs. The only other Christian album I ever had was a Tourniquet CD. They sounded somewhat like Metallica. Compared to what Metallica sounds like today, that album was _excellent_. 😉 But I traded it to my friend for a Bryan Adams “greatest hits” CD, which I gave to my sister. I also have some older Resurrection Band albums copied to tape lying around somewhere. You know they lost their way - musically, at least 😉 - when they officially changed their name to The Rez to appeal to the younger crowd. (Or maybe they just took out the part of their name that sounded “un-Christian” - _urrection band_. I think I saw one of those at the drug store, right next to the home circumcision kit. 😛 Anyhoo… ---
**Author:** ![Hunter\_Hawk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/50afbb/32.png) [@Hunter\_Hawk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hunter_Hawk)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2004, 7:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rock-of-ages-or-holy/243391/15 "2004-05-04T07:36:51Z")
> [@Suburban Plankton](#): > > I prefer mainstream songs that carry a message, rather than “religious” songs (Joan Osborne’s _One of Us_ springs to mind). Or any of a bunch of songs by Nick Cave. ---
**Author:** ![spiralscratch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dfb087/32.png) [@spiralscratch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spiralscratch)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2004, 7:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rock-of-ages-or-holy/243391/16 "2004-05-04T07:55:12Z")
Anyone else come into this thread thinking that, based on its title, it would be about Def Leppard? Now that song is stuck in my head. _Gunter gleiben glauchen globen…_ ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2004, 10:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rock-of-ages-or-holy/243391/17 "2004-05-04T10:25:30Z")
I liked the old Bob Dylan and the old Amy Grant. ---
**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2004, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rock-of-ages-or-holy/243391/18 "2004-05-04T12:51:03Z")
> [@Beauty Personified](#): > > Actually, I’d say 95% of _all_ music (not just Christian) is crap. And the same goes for most of the arts today - film, literature, painting, television… There’s good stuff out there somewhere, but you have to wade through all the crap to find it. And the really crappy stuff tends to float, burying the good stuff. **Beauty Personified** ’s commentary on Sturgeon’s Law. ---
**Author:** ![lieu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c2a13f/32.png) [@lieu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lieu)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2004, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rock-of-ages-or-holy/243391/19 "2004-05-04T13:51:40Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > This is the impression I got after listening to a Christian rock station all day today, then watching Christian videos on a local access station this afternoon. What on Earth _possessed_ you to do such a thing? ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2004, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rock-of-ages-or-holy/243391/20 "2004-05-04T14:20:08Z")
First, Stryper did NOT sound like Journey- they sounded like STYX! That singer sounded exactly like Dennis De Young! I’m already on record as saying most Christian rock bores me. But the problem isn’t the subject matter, it’s the approach. It’s DEFINITELY possible to write great music with Christian themes (ask Bach or Haydn), just as it’s possible to write great music with political themes. But the music HAS to come before the message. If you start with a message and a religious or ideological agenda, and try to build a song around them, you’re likely to end up with garbage. Like many people, when I hear a good new song on the radio, I don’t pay much attention to the lyrics. Only AFTER I’ve heard it a few times, and have come to like it, do I start listening to the words. When I finally do, I’m often surprised to find that the lyrics are either stupid, incomprehensible, or directly contrary to my beliefs! On the other hand, if a song bores me, I’ll tune it out the next time I hear it, and won’t bother to listen to the lyrics, no matter how profound, touching, or in line with my beliefs they may be. No matter how worthy your message (be it political, religious, whatever) is, nobody’s going to pay it any mind if the music is bland. A good riff by Angus Young grabs me, even if AC/DC’s lyrics are puerile. A wimpy tune by Jars of Clay does NOT grab me, which means I don’t stick around to hear the supposedly inspirational lyrics- just as few young left-wingers want to listen to dull, preachy, Pete Seegerish folkies. When talented songwriters (U2 or Springsteen, say) deal with Christian themes, the results are often wonderful. But when untalented songwriters start with a wonderful theme and try to build a song around it, the results tend to be boring. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rock-of-ages-or-holy/243391.md?page=2)