# Rock Opera Discussion **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 25, 2004, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rock-opera-discussion/226049 "2004-01-25T22:29:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Darth\_Nader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Darth\_Nader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Nader)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2004, 11:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rock-opera-discussion/226049/21 "2004-01-26T11:50:43Z")
> [@lillalette](#): > > There was a recent movie version of Jesus Christ Superstar (2001, maybe) that’s really, really good. Glenn Carter plays Jesus and Renee Castle plays Mary Magdalene. I don’t remember who plays Simon and Peter, but they are both mightily hot. I have this one, and it **is** quite good. The lyrics have evolved a bit, and the psuedo-fascist feel of the sets/costumes/makeup is wonderful. Not to mention the perfect actor for the role of [King Herod](http://www.orangeneko.com/rik/)… ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2004, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rock-opera-discussion/226049/22 "2004-01-26T13:33:05Z")
> [@gobear](#): > > Indeed, but still, _Tommy_, at least on the album, is a cantata, not an opera. A cantata is a drama sung by a chorus, and not an opera, which has costumes, scenery, and individual singers playing different roles. Pete Townshend has acknowledged this. Still, Tommy is a _rock opera_, which has different expectations than that of a classical opera, so it’s a moot point. ---
**Author:** ![Pergau](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7c8e57/32.png) [@Pergau](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pergau)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2004, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rock-opera-discussion/226049/23 "2004-01-26T14:02:29Z")
How come there has been no mention of “Billy the kid and the green baize vampire” Sorry about the HTML [http://www.qsulis.demon.co.uk/Website\_Louise\_Gold/Billy\_The\_Kid\_And\_The\_Green\_Baize\_Vampire\_Review.htm](http://www.qsulis.demon.co.uk/Website_Louise_Gold/Billy_The_Kid_And_The_Green_Baize_Vampire_Review.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2004, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rock-opera-discussion/226049/24 "2004-01-26T14:03:24Z")
Another vote for the Andrew Lloyd Webber/Tim Rice “Jesus Christ Superstar.” It’s astonishing that this was written when Tim was 24 and Andrew was 20! Get the 2000 video version. Simon is played by Tony Vincent, and he is good. He steals the show with his solo. Later Tony went on to play Judas in the Superstar revival on Broadway, and earned a Tony nomination. ---
**Author:** ![Edward\_The\_Head](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ce73a5/32.png) [@Edward\_The\_Head](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Edward_The_Head)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2004, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rock-opera-discussion/226049/25 "2004-01-26T14:22:35Z")
> [@gobear](#): > > Indeed, but still, _Tommy_, at least on the album, is a cantata, not an opera. A cantata is a drama sung by a chorus, and not an opera, which has costumes, scenery, and individual singers playing different roles. Then there can be no such thing as a Rock opera on album since you wouldn’t have scenery etc. I can think of a number of albums that fit that haven’t been said. Iron Maiden’s Seventh Son of a Seventh Son. While it doesn’t have a full story, you can make out what is going on. Savatage has 4, Streets, which I brought to work this week, Dead Winter Dead, Wake of Magellan, and Poets and Madmen. Virgin Steele has House of Atreus parts I & II. They have also written a true opera called KLYTAIMNESTRA-DER FLUCH DER ATRIDEN. I’m sure I have a few more that I just can’t think of right now as well. I also heard talk of Brian Johnson, I think, from AC/DC doing an opera as well. ---
**Author:** ![Leechboy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9fc348/32.png) [@Leechboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leechboy)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2004, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rock-opera-discussion/226049/26 "2004-01-26T15:02:56Z")
In the early nineties Blackie Lawless of _W.A.S.P._ went on a serious “I want to be Pete Townsend” bender and came up with **The Crimson Idol**. Which remarkably shares a similar plotline to the aforementioned _Savatage’s_ **Streets** except for the ending. (Idol ends with it’s protagonist hanging himself, while Streets ends with an upbeat one on one with God, which shamelessly plagerises their earlier classic “When the Crowds Are Gone”.) There was a fantastic Thrash-opera by _Sabbat_ entitled **Dreamweaver: Reflections of Our Yesterdays** , which has some of the best lyrics I’ve ever read. Likewise, the rather silly \*King Diamond \* had **“Them”** and it’s sequel **Conspiracy**. ---
**Author:** ![International\_Playboy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/48db29/32.png) [@International\_Playboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/International_Playboy)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2004, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rock-opera-discussion/226049/27 "2004-01-26T15:23:01Z")
> [@DogsLunch](#): > > Hey, and if you’re a fan of “The Wall”, give [“Rebuild The Wall”](http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00006408J/qid=1075099009/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/103-0323977-2828615?v=glance&s=music) by Luther Wright and the Wrongs a try. 😃 Recently bought that one used through Amazon after reading about it in another thread here. I like it a lot. It’s interesting that the country tempo makes the album much shorter than the original, though they didn’t cut any content. Also, though the story is actually a depressing one, like Steve Martin once said, you can’t play depressing music on a banjo. ---
**Author:** ![Miss\_Purl\_McKnittington](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9a140/32.png) [@Miss\_Purl\_McKnittington](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miss_Purl_McKnittington)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2004, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rock-opera-discussion/226049/28 "2004-01-27T05:28:05Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > Another vote for the Andrew Lloyd Webber/Tim Rice “Jesus Christ Superstar.” It’s astonishing that this was written when Tim was 24 and Andrew was 20! > > Get the 2000 video version. Simon is played by Tony Vincent, and he is good. He steals the show with his solo. Later Tony went on to play Judas in the Superstar revival on Broadway, and earned a Tony nomination. Yes, that’s who it is! In his solo, Tony Vincent just captures the essence of his character. It flows out of him. Even watching a recording, it’s a goosebumps moment. And for pure spectacle, the driving of the moneylenders from the temple is pretty sweet. Judas’ reprise of “I Don’t Know How to Love Him” in “Judas’ Death” is . . . (I can’t believe I’m using this word) poignant. It just aches. (I’ve just noticed that my Windows Media Player always plays blood red and noxious green during the visualization for this song. Weird.) So, on everyone’s New Years resolutions list is a command to rent/borrow from the library this version of Jesus Christ Superstar. If anything, you should see/listen to this just to experience the sheer range that these people have – this ain’t no Music Man. _look at link Darth Nader posted_ Herod was . . . Drop Dead Fred?! Horrors! ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2004, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rock-opera-discussion/226049/29 "2004-01-27T13:27:54Z")
I only want to say that a lot of young people have come to me asking about the show after seeing the video. It’s nice that Superstar has caught on with the next generation. The show is immortal (or has been resurrected). ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2004, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rock-opera-discussion/226049/30 "2004-01-27T13:31:02Z")
> [@gobear](#): > > Don’t forget _Jesus Christ Superstar_, and the Who’s original recording_Tommy_ was not as much a rock opera as a rock cantata. What’s the difference between an opera and a cantata? I’m unfamiliar with the latter. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2004, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rock-opera-discussion/226049/31 "2004-01-27T13:43:15Z")
> [@Edward The Head](#): > > Then there can be no such thing as a Rock opera on album since you wouldn’t have scenery etc. What do you call traditional opera CDs? It’s still an opera. It has to be written before it can be performed. Pete Townsend wrote it, and it was performed later. Sounds like opera to me! ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2004, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rock-opera-discussion/226049/32 "2004-01-27T17:21:34Z")
Trans-Siberia Symphony Orchestra’s done one. Beethoven’s Last Night. Been listening to it. Bit overblown, but so is Beethoven. ---
**Author:** ![Miss\_Purl\_McKnittington](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9a140/32.png) [@Miss\_Purl\_McKnittington](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miss_Purl_McKnittington)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2004, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rock-opera-discussion/226049/33 "2004-01-28T05:44:31Z")
> [@Kalhoun](#): > > What’s the difference between an opera and a cantata? I’m unfamiliar with the latter. I was always told during middle school and high school that an opera is a staged production – it has scenery, costumes, lighting – that whole bag. A cantata, though, is basically an opera that is not staged, which makes it not an opera at all, but a collection of music composed to tell a story. ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2004, 8:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rock-opera-discussion/226049/34 "2004-02-01T08:28:55Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > Pete Townshend has acknowledged this. Still, Tommy is a _rock opera_, which has different expectations than that of a classical opera, so it’s a moot point. And on top of that, _Tommy_ has in fact been performed with a full cast of singers, costumes, sets, etc. Prior to the Broadway/West End stage musical, there was a production by the Seattle Opera in 1971 (featuring Bette Midler) and a special benefit with the London Symphony Orchestra in 1972. Whether any of these performances can be considered “true” opera is a question I’m not qualified to answer, but once again I think _Tommy_ is stronger on the “opera” side of “rock opera” than most other works in the genre. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2004, 9:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rock-opera-discussion/226049/35 "2004-02-01T09:18:25Z")
How is \*\*Tommy[/b[ in any way operatic? In **Jesus Christ Superstar** , the characters sing dialogue to each other, which in turn propels the story. **Tommy** , on the other hand, is a collection of songs sung by characters who do not interact, except for “Do You Think It’s Alright?”. In JCS, the story is completely told by the music and lyrics; **Tommy** has to be staged for the songs to make narrative sense. To me, **Tommy** , like **Quadrophenia** , is more of a concept album than a rock opera, although it definitely rocks. As a sidenote, if JCS can be remade, will British television tackle **Tommy** next? Townshend ruined the movie by the hamhanded use of synthesizers in the score and having session musicians instead of the Who perform the music (excepting Elton John and Eric Clapton’s performances). And having Oliver Reed and Jack Nicholson sing must have Ken Russell’s demented idea. I cringe when Nicholson butchers “Go To The Mirror,” which is one of my favorite Who songs. **Tommy** deserves a better staging. ---
**Author:** ![BlackNGold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/779978/32.png) [@BlackNGold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlackNGold)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2004, 11:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rock-opera-discussion/226049/36 "2004-02-01T11:37:00Z")
[QUOTE=Lamia] Bowie’s _The Rise and Fall of Ziggy Stardust and the Spiders from Mars_ is arguably a rock opera, but damned if I could tell you what actually happens in it (“Uh…the world’s gonna end in five years, and then there’s this alien who joins a rock band, and…um…I dunno, man”) or who any of the characters are except for Ziggy and his nameless bandmates.QUOTE] The bandmates would be Weird and Gilly. I don’t think of Ziggy as a rock opera, but a series of songs with somewhat of a narrative arc. I’m not sure what exactly that makes it. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2004, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rock-opera-discussion/226049/37 "2004-02-01T12:08:23Z")
> [@gobear](#): > > I remember when I was a wee tot in the late 60s, one of my mom’s friends had an LP that was a rock version of _Carmen_, with artists of the day like Melba Moore singing the roles. I have never been able to find it, but I know the bloody thing exists. It’s called [The Naked Carmen"](http://www.echonyc.com/~jhhl/nakedc.html) and it shows up in the “Soundtracks/Broadway Shows” section of record stores, not the “Rock” section. Fenris ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2004, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rock-opera-discussion/226049/38 "2004-02-01T17:49:23Z")
Thanks, **Fenris**. I’ll keep an eye out for that title if it ever comes back in print. ---
**Author:** ![MidnightRadio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecd19e/32.png) [@MidnightRadio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MidnightRadio)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2004, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rock-opera-discussion/226049/39 "2004-02-01T18:48:25Z")
I can’t believe no one’s mentioned _Rent_. Or _Evita_, for that matter, since other Andrew Lloyd Webber/Tim Rice collaborations were mentioned. Granted, when _Evita_ made the transition from album to stage show, it was reorchestrated to sound more like a traditional musical than a rock opera, but it started life as a rock opera on records. > [@ccwaterback](#): > > Fill your head with **Hair** , long beautiful **Hair**. I’m not really sure how to classify _Hair_. I love it, but I’m not sure it really qualifies as a rock opera. I think there might be too much dialogue. But then, _Carmen_ has dialogue, too, and I don’t think anyone’s contesting its status as a opera. And _The Magic Flute_ is _loaded_ with dialogue and it’s considered an opera, not an operetta or a musical (according to my college music instructor, anyway). So, I don’t know. ---
**Author:** ![riserius1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7ab992/32.png) [@riserius1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/riserius1)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2004, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rock-opera-discussion/226049/40 "2004-02-02T00:49:15Z")
Blurring for a minute the distinction between cantata and opera, I would certainly include _Snow_ by **Spock’s Beard** , as well as \*Joe’s Garage \* by **Zappa**. Actually _Thing-Fish_(also by **Zappa** was conceived as a full broadway production, with costumes, scenery, etc. but never could get any financial backing. If it’s never been performed live does it count as an opera? Chris W [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rock-opera-discussion/226049.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rock-opera-discussion/226049.md?page=3)