# Rock Scissors Paper ....Spock? Lizards?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rock-scissors-paper-spock-lizards/497141
**Category:** Factual Questions
**Created:** [May 21, 2009, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rock-scissors-paper-spock-lizards/497141 "2009-05-21T04:18:03Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Attack_from_the_3rd_dimension)
#### Post date: [May 21, 2009, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rock-scissors-paper-spock-lizards/497141/1 "2009-05-21T04:18:03Z")
Ok, I’ve never heard of this before, and now I’ve seen it twice today. Where did this come from? Why did it come? How does it work? I’m out of the loop here, pop culture is slithering past without me.
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### Author:  [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)
#### Post date: [May 21, 2009, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rock-scissors-paper-spock-lizards/497141/2 "2009-05-21T04:22:38Z")
The TV show [The Big Bang Theory, season 2, episode 8](http://www.cliqueclack.com/tv/2008/11/17/the-big-bang-theory-rock-paper-scissors-lizard-spock/).
> [@](#):
>
> Okay, here’s how it goes. I’m only going to tell you once:
>
> Scissors cut paper, paper covers rock, rock crushes lizard, lizard poisons Spock, Spock smashes scissors, scissors decapitate lizard, lizard eats paper, paper disproves Spock, Spock vaporizes rock and, as it’s always been, rock crushes scissors. I may have to give a pop quiz on this at the end of this entry. Read on.
> Although this episode was less Sheldon-centric than I prefer, the “lizard-Spock expansion” of the rock-paper-scissors betting made it all worthwhile. I have to wonder how many takes it took to get the explanation and for them to all go Spock fingers in unison. Alas, the episode was more Wolowitz-centric and I can only take so much of him.
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### Author:  [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)
#### Post date: [May 21, 2009, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rock-scissors-paper-spock-lizards/497141/3 "2009-05-21T04:49:46Z")
RPSLS existed long before _The Big Bang Theory_, though they probably made it more popular.
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### Author:  [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)
#### Post date: [May 21, 2009, 6:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rock-scissors-paper-spock-lizards/497141/4 "2009-05-21T06:10:51Z")
Real roshambo professionals use these rules:
[http://iceland.sportsontheweb.net/shore/rpc-guide/](http://iceland.sportsontheweb.net/shore/rpc-guide/)
e.g. Alien vaporizes dragon, shoots lightning, defuses nuke, vaporizes rock, destroys sun, mutates snake
Snake bites monkey, eats cockroach, swallows sponge
etc.
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### Author:  [@runcible\_spoon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/runcible_spoon)
#### Post date: [May 21, 2009, 7:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rock-scissors-paper-spock-lizards/497141/5 "2009-05-21T07:01:49Z")
> [@Arnold\_Winkelried](#):
>
> Real roshambo professionals use these rules:
> [http://iceland.sportsontheweb.net/shore/rpc-guide/](http://iceland.sportsontheweb.net/shore/rpc-guide/)
>
> e.g. Alien vaporizes dragon, shoots lightning, defuses nuke, vaporizes rock, destroys sun, mutates snake
>
> Snake bites monkey, eats cockroach, swallows sponge
>
> etc.
Pfff, maybe the rookies do. Oh, what’s that, your rules have more than a one percent chance of a tie? [Not these ones, baby.\*](http://www.umop.com/rps101/alloutcomes.htm)
\*[interactive diagram here.](http://www.umop.com/rps101/rps101chart.html)
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### Author:  [@tumbleddown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tumbleddown)
#### Post date: [May 21, 2009, 11:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rock-scissors-paper-spock-lizards/497141/6 "2009-05-21T11:16:53Z")
Is there a photo somewhere of the hand gesture for lizard?
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### Author:  [@Terminus\_Est](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terminus_Est)
#### Post date: [May 21, 2009, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rock-scissors-paper-spock-lizards/497141/7 "2009-05-21T14:59:10Z")
You can get it on a [T-shirt from ThinkGeek](http://www.thinkgeek.com/tshirts-apparel/unisex/generic/b597/zoom/).
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### Author:  [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)
#### Post date: [May 21, 2009, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rock-scissors-paper-spock-lizards/497141/8 "2009-05-21T15:19:32Z")
> [@runcible\_spoon](#):
>
> Pfff, maybe the rookies do. Oh, what’s that, your rules have more than a one percent chance of a tie? [Not these ones, baby.\*](http://www.umop.com/rps101/alloutcomes.htm)
>
> \*[interactive diagram here.](http://www.umop.com/rps101/rps101chart.html)
Now that is impressive. But how can you get a tie in the chart I linked to? I didn’t go through it exhaustively, but after a cursory glance I didn’t see any ties. Assuming two players (roshambo is always two players, right?)
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### Author:  [@Philster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Philster)
#### Post date: [May 21, 2009, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rock-scissors-paper-spock-lizards/497141/9 "2009-05-21T15:23:39Z")
[![]( " - YouTube") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uBj7-50bloE)
Segment and explanation.
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### Author:  [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)
#### Post date: [May 21, 2009, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rock-scissors-paper-spock-lizards/497141/10 "2009-05-21T15:46:41Z")
> [@Arnold\_Winkelried](#):
>
> Now that is impressive. But how can you get a tie in the chart I linked to?
You can get a tie in any system if both players choose the same object. The more objects there are, the less chance that will happen.
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### Author:  [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)
#### Post date: [May 21, 2009, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rock-scissors-paper-spock-lizards/497141/11 "2009-05-21T15:57:45Z")
Just to make sure I’m clear on the details, the point of these expanded lists of gestures is to avoid both players choosing the same gesture, right? Or is there some subtler strategic issues raised?
And on a related note, I’ve read that Zachary Quinto turned out to be totally unable to do the Vulcan salute. Apparently nobody thought to check before production started. J.J. Abrams finally had to resort to glueing his fingers together so he could shoot the scene.
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### Author:  [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)
#### Post date: [May 21, 2009, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rock-scissors-paper-spock-lizards/497141/12 "2009-05-21T16:01:58Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#):
>
> You can get a tie in any system if both players choose the same object. The more objects there are, the less chance that will happen.
Doh! Of course!
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### Author:  [@Hampshire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hampshire)
#### Post date: [May 21, 2009, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rock-scissors-paper-spock-lizards/497141/13 "2009-05-21T19:04:00Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#):
>
> Just to make sure I’m clear on the details, the point of these expanded lists of gestures is to avoid both players choosing the same gesture, right? Or is there some subtler strategic issues raised?
No, that’s about right. You can do it with any number of symbols as long as it’s an odd number. Basic rock-paper-scissors has 3 so you have a 50/50 chance against them (1 winner, 1 loser). The expanded spock version has 5 symbols but you still have a 50-50 chance (2 winners, 2 losers). You could make a version if you like of 101 symbols (50 winners, 50 losers) like the dynamite one linked to.
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### Author:  [@Nancarrow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nancarrow)
#### Post date: [May 21, 2009, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rock-scissors-paper-spock-lizards/497141/14 "2009-05-21T19:11:53Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#):
>
> And on a related note, I’ve read that Zachary Quinto turned out to be totally unable to do the Vulcan salute. Apparently nobody thought to check before production started. J.J. Abrams finally had to resort to glueing his fingers together so he could shoot the scene.
WTF? You hold your hand up, palm facing the other guy, and part your middle and ring fingers. What’s unable to be done about that?
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### Author:  [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)
#### Post date: [May 21, 2009, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rock-scissors-paper-spock-lizards/497141/15 "2009-05-21T19:19:48Z")
Some people just can’t control their fingers independently that way. Dunno if it’s true about Quinto, though.
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### Author:  [@melodyharmonius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/melodyharmonius)
#### Post date: [May 21, 2009, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rock-scissors-paper-spock-lizards/497141/16 "2009-05-21T19:22:31Z")
I saw the ThinkGeek shirt, then heard about it being on BBT, then found out about the rest.
And now I’ve heard it 3 times this week.
I feel so in the know!
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### Author:  [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)
#### Post date: [May 21, 2009, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rock-scissors-paper-spock-lizards/497141/17 "2009-05-21T19:29:46Z")
> [@Nancarrow](#):
>
> WTF? You hold your hand up, palm facing the other guy, and part your middle and ring fingers. What’s unable to be done about that?
Can you wiggle your ears or roll your tongue or flare your nostrils?
I can do two of those three, but no matter how hard I try, I can’t wiggle my ears.
If you’re not wired to do those things, it won’t happen.
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### Author:  [@brownie55](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brownie55)
#### Post date: [May 21, 2009, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rock-scissors-paper-spock-lizards/497141/18 "2009-05-21T19:34:44Z")
> [@Nancarrow](#):
>
> WTF? You hold your hand up, palm facing the other guy, and part your middle and ring fingers. What’s unable to be done about that?
I can’t do it right handed, only about a quarter inch of separation anyway. Left handed is only a little better. Yeah, it’s odd, I can only wiggle one ear, too.
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### Author:  [@runcible\_spoon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/runcible_spoon)
#### Post date: [May 21, 2009, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rock-scissors-paper-spock-lizards/497141/19 "2009-05-21T19:43:20Z")
> [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](#):
>
> Can you wiggle your ears or roll your tongue or flare your nostrils?
>
> I can do two of those three, but no matter how hard I try, I can’t wiggle my ears.
>
> If you’re not wired to do those things, it won’t happen.
I dunno about the rest of those, but I definitely had to practice as a kid to get the hand gesture.
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### Author:  [@Frodo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frodo)
#### Post date: [May 21, 2009, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rock-scissors-paper-spock-lizards/497141/20 "2009-05-21T19:46:51Z")
I cant do it ☹
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