# Rock, stone **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [January 30, 2023, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rock-stone/979017 "2023-01-30T03:52:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2023, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rock-stone/979017/1 "2023-01-30T03:52:08Z")
_Rock_ and _stone_ are two synonyms, right? Or… _are they?_ Over the years as I kept learning languages I kept noticing a pattern: most languages have one word consistently translated as “rock” and a different word consistently translated as “stone.” They line up like this: English: rock stone Arabic: ṣakhr ḥajar French: roche pierre Greek: petra lithos Hebrew: sela‘ even Latin: rupes lapis Turkish: kaya taş For this pattern to exist, the two words cannot be perfectly synonymous. I thunk about it until I realized: Rock is aggregate mineral matter still connected with the Earth’s crust. Stone is aggregate mineral matter disconnected from the Earth’s crust. Which explains why Ayers Rock, the Dome of the Rock, and the Rock of Gibraltar use the one word. And why gemstone, paving stone, and the Black Stone use the other word. This pattern had been in plain sight my whole life without my noticing it. Because in ordinary colloquial English, as far as everyone is concerned, the two words are essentially synonymous; in literary English you throw stones, but for the neighborhood kids where I grew up, you threw “rocks.” ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2023, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rock-stone/979017/2 "2023-01-30T04:10:41Z")
> [@Johanna](#): > > in literary English you throw stones, but for the neighborhood kids where I grew up, you threw “rocks.” I never thought about this. I wonder if there are colloquial dialects of English that would prefer “stone”? ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2023, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rock-stone/979017/3 "2023-01-30T04:13:15Z")
Agreed that rock usually means the stuff _in situ_. But with stone - how do types of rock like limestone, sandstone, siltstone, etc. fit into this picture? Is it better to say that stone is a material that rocks are made from, and that the frequent “disconnected from the Earth’s crust” part derives from that - stone is often the word for the material after humans have dug it up and put it to certain uses? ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2023, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rock-stone/979017/4 "2023-01-30T04:16:24Z")
There are so many exceptions that prove the rule. For example, the late Great Stone Face of New Hampshire. When it was still hanging off the mountain side, it was technically a Great Rock Face. But when it tumbled down into the valley below, it became stone (or stones). Although, now that I type it out, “rockface” is already a word with its own meaning, which might explain why they named it with “stone.” Most of the languages I’ve surveyed have two distinct words, but Finnish has only one word, _kivi_, to cover both meanings. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2023, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rock-stone/979017/5 "2023-01-30T04:24:26Z")
> [@Johanna](#): > > Which explains why Ayers Rock, the Dome of the Rock, and the Rock of Gibraltar use the one word. And why gemstone, paving stone, and the Black Stone use the other word. What about Stone Mountain and Yellowstone? ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2023, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rock-stone/979017/6 "2023-01-30T04:26:06Z")
That’s the conundrum. They’re synonyms—but not really. They’re two different meanings—but not exactly. ---
**Author:** ![StarvingButStrong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/starvingbutstrong/32/335_2.png) [@StarvingButStrong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StarvingButStrong)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2023, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rock-stone/979017/7 "2023-01-30T04:27:41Z")
> [@Johanna](#): > > Rock is aggregate mineral matter still connected with the Earth’s crust. > Stone is aggregate mineral matter disconnected from the Earth’s crust. I wpnder if the ‘disconnected’ is the distinguishing point. Rather ‘rock’ is natural, the stuff the world is made from, all around us and under our feet, but ‘stone’ has been altered by humans for their use? I’m thinking of the city of Petra, clearly it is ‘stone’ though most of it is still part of the earth, just tunneled into and with the surfaces shaped and smooth to our taste. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2023, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rock-stone/979017/8 "2023-01-30T04:32:50Z")
> [@StarvingButStrong](#): > > Rather ‘rock’ is natural, the stuff the world is made from, all around us and under our feet, but ‘stone’ has been altered by humans for their use? Right, but limestone, sandstone etc. is also stuff that rock is made from before humans do anything with it. That’s why I think stone as a “material rock is made from” fits better. It can describe what constitutes a type of rock _in situ_, and stone is then also the word that tends to be used when humans use and shape the “material of rock” for some purpose. ---
**Author:** ![Morgyn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morgyn/32/3041_2.png) [@Morgyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgyn)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2023, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rock-stone/979017/9 "2023-01-30T04:42:41Z")
[![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/yW8sCvdouEg/hqdefault.jpg "It's The Great Pumpkin Charlie Brown: I got a rock") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yW8sCvdouEg) Charlie Brown would like a word. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2023, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rock-stone/979017/10 "2023-01-30T04:48:32Z")
The Charlie Brown “a rock” exception to the “connected with the Earth’s crust” rule makes some sense if the word stone tends to refer to the material rock is made from, especially when humans do stuff with that material. Because you usually only call it “a rock” when it’s a random fragment with no shaping or specific purpose. Admittedly, there is some semantic overlap with “a stone”, but to my intuition “a rock” is closer to the random fragment sense, while “a stone” is probably smoother and _can_ be something with a purpose. ---
**Author:** ![StarvingButStrong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/starvingbutstrong/32/335_2.png) [@StarvingButStrong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StarvingButStrong)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2023, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rock-stone/979017/11 "2023-01-30T04:51:43Z")
More examples to consider: Early humans took rocks and turned them into stone tools. People take chunks of rock they find interesting and attractive and scatter them around to create rock gardens. It really seems to me it’s the deliberate alteration by humans that turns rocks to stones. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2023, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rock-stone/979017/12 "2023-01-30T04:55:02Z")
I think I like a definition for stone along the lines of “stuff rock is made from, especially when put to some purpose by humans” ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2023, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rock-stone/979017/13 "2023-01-30T04:55:19Z")
Charlie Brown is a blockhead. Blocks are made of stone. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2023, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rock-stone/979017/14 "2023-01-30T04:55:56Z")
It doesn’t always seem to require alteration, maybe just purpose. When random fragments of rock are put to a murderous purpose, we call it “stoning”. Whereas to my intuition Charlie Brown definitely gets a (purposeless) rock, not a stone. Perhaps the “rock garden” is an exception because of a desired resemblance to a natural (without human purpose) state? ---
**Author:** ![StarvingButStrong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/starvingbutstrong/32/335_2.png) [@StarvingButStrong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StarvingButStrong)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2023, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rock-stone/979017/15 "2023-01-30T05:36:02Z")
Two last thoughts, I’ve got to turn in. 1. People with that hobby call themselves rock hounds. They’re looking for natural materials, mostly, though I bet they’d also pick up stone arrowheads. 2. In a science documentary I saw once, this scientist was somewhere on a vast rocky stretch. He would pick up a chunk of rock and whack it a few times with a hammer, trying to get it to split apart and reveal a fossilized leaf or whatever. What he picked up was clearly a rock. I think what he held afterwards was a stone with a fossil. ---
**Author:** ![Zyada](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zyada/32/3028_2.png) [@Zyada](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zyada)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2023, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rock-stone/979017/16 "2023-01-30T05:50:22Z")
Another rock: > **[Enchanted Rock](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enchanted_Rock)** > > Pages for logged out editors learn more > > Enchanted Rock is a pink granite mountain located in the Llano Uplift about 17 miles (27 km) north of Fredericksburg, Texas and 24 miles (39 km) south of Llano, Texas, United States. Enchanted Rock State Natural Area, which includes Enchanted Rock and surrounding land, spans the border between Gillespie and Llano counties, south of the Llano River. Enchanted Rock covers roughly 640 acres (260 ha) and rises around 425 feet (130 m) above the surrou... (aside: it’s about 425 feet tall, but they’re calling it a mountain…) ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2023, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rock-stone/979017/17 "2023-01-30T05:52:17Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Yellowstone This one seems analogous to limestone - some of the rock is yellow (sand)stone. > [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Stone Mountain And I believe this is notable for the huge bas-relief carving in the rock face? So both of these seem to fit quite well with a definition “stuff rock is made from, especially when put to some purpose by humans” ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2023, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rock-stone/979017/18 "2023-01-30T05:57:34Z")
If anyone who looks at Medusa turns into stone, what _kind_ of stone? ETA: or should that go in the silly unanswerable questions thread? ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2023, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rock-stone/979017/19 "2023-01-30T06:04:12Z")
[Carbonite](https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Carbonite)? ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2023, 6:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rock-stone/979017/20 "2023-01-30T06:24:55Z")
I lean towards rock = unworked, stone = worked. The reason that people in old books threw stones and now we throw rocks is that in the past, buildings and streets were made of stone, so throwing a stone is like throwing a brick - you’re tossing widely available construction material. Whereas today, you don’t have that many cornerstones or cobblestones lying around, so you throw rocks. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rock-stone/979017.md?page=2)