Oops not to mention the ‘J’ sound. I just thought La Jolla was a Jolly place to live 
That’s OK. about 10 years ago, I visited my Washington DC cousin and asked how far McLean, VA was from his place (because a friend lived there). I can still hearing him laughing at me “It’s 'Mac-Lay-un” not like the McDonald’s sandwich." :rolleyes:
It’s somewhat different. The word for ‘rabbit’, for instance, is ‘coelho’, which is pronounced “co-EL-yo”. Cabrillo in Portuguese would probably come across as “Cabrilho”, which would be pronounced “Ca- BREEL-yo”.
Actually, on re-reading that, the pronunciation would be more like “Quayle-yo”. The syllables are not so succinct.
You’re probably talking about the town that’s pronounced Mission Ve-ya-ho and spelled Mission Viejo. It’s the “j-sounds-like-h” problem, not “ll-sounds-like-y” one.
Possibly I’m out of my element here, but I did take Spanish in middle and high school for six years. My accent was pretty decent, as corroborated by my teachers, one of whom was Hispanic.
So perhaps you should take your tone down a little. I am hardly spreading “misinformation.” Perhaps we simply have a different point of view.
We definitely do. And one of us is wrong.
Hmm. Given the choice of agreeing with you and abandoning my better instincts, or trusting myself and all the people who have supported my point of view…
:rolleyes:
Yeah, roll your eyes all you want. So you took Spanish in school huh? That’s very impressive and I am sure you are very proud but, you see, Spanish is my native language. I am a rather well read and educated Spaniard who right now is watching Spanish TV reporting another terror attack has been foiled on the railway south of Madrid. There are no victims but train service on that line has been interrupted all day. My command of Spanish is pretty good.
Not only am I quite sure I know the correct pronunciation of rodeo but I also know the vowels in other languages written with the Roman alphabet, including Chinese, have sounds which more closely resemble the original Latin sound and it is English which has drifted away. Maybe you have heard about the vowel shift which happened in English some centuries ago which is the reason vowel letters in English have a different phonetic value than they have in most other languages. For example, the long a as in “native” is peculiar to English and you will not hear the “a” having a similar long sound in any other language (at least that I am aware of). The letter “a” in most other languages most closely resemble each other (as in father, cha-cha, etc) and only English pronounces it “ay”.
I now remember the previous incarnation of this same argument was over the pronunciation of “Che” in “Ernesto Che Guevara” where some were saying it was “Chay” in Spanish. Chay indeed :rolleyes:
All I know is the correct spanish pronunciation is a lot closer to ro-day-oh than ro-dee-oh.
Not a native speaker, but fluent enough.
I listened to sailor’s wav file a bunch of times. Despite its rather muffled quality, I might write that as ro-day-o if I had to write it phonetically. Does that make me wrong because that’s what a native English ear hears?
well, no, whatever you hear is what you hear and that can’t be right or wrong, it’s just what you hear. But if you say that to a Spanish speaker he will tell you that is not correct Spanish pronunciation and you will immediately be identified as English-speaking.
I don’t blame you for hearing what is not there because it seems our brain maps what it hears to the sounds it knows and this includes two aspects: the sound itself and the intonation. I have a very serious problem in my attempts to speak Chinese because I can be told the same word 50 times and I repeat what I hear and I am just not getting it right. I am oblivious to differences which are obvious to a Chinese child.
Afyter thinking about “rodeo” and “ché” I am beginning to see a pattern which may explain something. Rodeo in Spanish is stressed on the e: ro-DEH-oh and it is stressed e’s where the English speaker would (mis) use the "ay"sound because that sound sort of provides more stress than the short e sound. So I think where the Spaniard hears two syllables a-y, the English speaker hears the stress.
The “de” sound in Spanish is close to the “de” in “despot”. Short. No drawn out ayyyyyyy.
But I can understand the problem because I have the same problem in Chinese. Words that are stressed (toned) in the way which seems natural to me I have no difficulty with but those which seem awkward I get wrong most of the time in spite of trying to practice. My ear just hears what it wants to hear and I think I am repeating what I heard but my Chinese listener cannot understand me.
There is a place called Lianhua Shan (lotus hill) and I’ve been trying to say the name for years but most of the time the natives still don’t understand me. When they finally catch on and exclaim “oh! Lianhua Shan!”, to me it sounds exactly like what I just said. My ear just cannot tell the subtle difference in intonation.
As I say, I am beginning to think the stress - intonation is just as fundamental as the pronunciation and the ear can hear what it expects to hear or what it is used to hearing but a native speaker can tell the difference immediately.
It happens the other way around and I have not heard any news anchor in Spain who could pronounce the name “George” with any degree of approximation and “your” is about the best they do. Sounds awful.
The vowels in Spanish are quite simple sounds, much simpler that the complex English sounds. I think Japanese also has the same type of simple vowels.
I agree. That would be more fun. I still have trouble remembering to say Woostah (when I finally saw the movie based on the book, A Civil Action, I felt like such a moron that I’d read the whole thing pronouncing it wrong in my head!) But is it really woo-sta or is it wuh-stuh?
That said, it is kind of a loony pronunciation as is Versailles, IN (locally, ver-SALES 
), Madeira, OH (muh-DEER-uh), and Lima, OH (LIE-muh). But, if there’s anything midwesterners got right, it’s spelling Wooster, Wooster and pronouncing it that way, too (go figure)! 
So do you have a Spanish teacher, or was this just sarcasm? You seem to have a pretty good hold of the Spanish language, but which kind of spanish? I need not tell you that different pronunciations and inflections differ between various regions of Spain. Mexican Spanish, as I’m sure you know, is a bit different than Spanish from Spaniards. It seems to me that you’re more intent on proving that you’re right, rather than citing references that might prove that you are. I’m not doubting your fluency in Spanish, but I’d like to see something to back up your condescencion. I’ll stop now, since this isn’t the Pit.
No look, that is not the way we do things around here. Your post provides no factual information and just wants to cast doubt on my assertions. You do not assert anything and you do not contradict anything I have said. You just question whether I may be familiar with different Spanish dialects. For what? Which of my assertions are you denying or contradicting? We deal with facts here. Which facts do you dispute? It is up to you to clearly state what you dispute of what I said and then I can deal with your assertions. Just vaguely questioning my assertions or my capacity without concretely and particularly stating anything is just an attempt to discredit what I said without any proof to the contrary.
Please state clearly which assertions of mine you dispute. In what Spanish-speaking country do they pronounce the vowels with an English pronunciation? The only one that would count in this instance would be Mexico and the Mexican dialect does not pronounce the vowels the English way. I have lived and worked in Mexico and I know. I have seen countless Mexican movies. I know what Mexican sounds like. This is just silly. It is like a Spanish-speaking person saying to someone in the UK whether they know what American or Australian English sound like. :rolleyes:
Spain right now is full of immigrants from Latin America. You can’t go anywhere and not talk to some. Your attempt at saying that maybe I am unfamiliar with other Spanish dialects is just silly nonsense. You cannot find a Spaniard who is not well familiar with different American Spanish dialects.
WTF? Tell me what you are contradicting! How am I supposed to provide cites? What are you saying is wrong? Say it!
And you might want to back it up with cites because in this case I think my background gives me some authority on the topic.
Therefore please
(a) state clearly if you are affirming that in Mexico the word is pronounced ro-DAY-oh
(b) offer some support for such an extraordinary assertion.
Because, as I said, the sounds of the written vowels are pretty close in all Romance languages and it is English which has shifted the sounds. Or are you denying the vowel shift ever took place in English and the Romans spoke with an English accent?
It seems to me the question is not only so much about not knowing Spanish but also about being ignorant of English as well. Or was there “the great Mexican vowel shift” that I missed?
My peeve is with so many Americans who immediately assume the English vowels are somehow standard around the world when they are peculiar only to English. We have had this discussion several times. One was the Ernesto Che Guevara thread and another one I remember was about Chinese hanyu pinyin where some poster was also not understanding why “chinese is not written like it sounds”. The answer, of course, is that it is written as it sounds if you consider the standard sound of the vowels and not the English sound. And for someone to somehow believe that English is the standard pronunciation for the Roman alphabet is, IMHO, on par with believing the Bible was written in English. No matter what you see in the movies, the Romans did not speak English.
:rolleyes:
How did I know that this would turn into a pissing contest between people who speak Spanish. Spanish is pretty easy to learn, and learning foreign languages makes people think that they are intelligent for some reason.
My accent in spanish is pretty damn good if I say so myself, and I get compliments all the time, but there’s no reason to go overboard and not recognize that Ro day oh is the closer of the two pronunciations to the Spanish one. And when you say that its pronounced the “Spanish” way its not saying that you pronounce it exactly like a Mexican would, but rather the more Spanish-sounding of the two. Its the closest aproximation that we have in American English, isn’t it? It really makes me lose respect for someone when they try to show off their intelligence by touting their Spanish abilities, considering how easy it is to learn. I don’t like it when people pay attention to me because I can speak foreign languages, and I certainly hate it when people try to show off by showing their abilities. Typical SMDB, though. I love how people are always looking for a fight. :rolleyes:
“Don’t you roll your eyes at me! I’ll roll that head of yours right out the door!”
Bwaaahaaaa! Bill Cosby just slays me!
Yep. Spanish must be pretty easy when Spaniards can speak it. :rolleyes:
It’s my mother language so I have no idea WTF you are talking about. English is my second language and I bet I speak better English than many Americans. i still do not think I am any more intelligent because of speaking any language. I’ve know many dumb people and they could (and would) speak their thoughts in their own language so i never thought the ability to speak had anything to do with intelligence.
I am sooo happy for you.
Where is it written that I only get a choice of two? My assertion is that the English “day” has two syllables according to phoneticians and phonologists who would transliterate it as “de-i” and I am saying there is no second part “i” and it is only “de”. Where is it written that the only choices I get are English pronunciations?
I have no idea how this is of any relevance since all Spanish dialects pronounce “de” pretty much the same way and, in any case, Mexican would be the only relevant one in this case and it does not support your assertion.
Not really but, again, I can’t see how it is relevant.
You repeat yourself. Yes. It was easy for me to learn Spanish. It is my mother tongue. Now, please explain where I am"trying to show off my intelligence by touting my Spanish abilities". You keep making silly allegations that you do not care to back up.
Oh, yes. I can imagine. It must be awful. It must be so lonely up there. I know what you mean.
especially when they contradict you. yes? It’s not “showing off” if they agree with you but it’s always “showing off” if they disagree with you. Yes? Or where do you get I am “showing off”?
Yeah, don’t you hate it when they correct your errors? Sorry for any distress my posts may have caused you. I still stand by the accuracy of everything I have posted in this thread. I believe it is Oll Korrect.
What I’ve never understood is why Worcester is “Wooster”, but Dorchester isn’t “Dooster”. 
No, but your command of explaining what you mean sucks.
That little link you put up has the nice man pronouncing it ro-day-oh (I’m not going to get into accents here). Ro-day-oh and ro-deh-oh are the same freaking sounds, except the latter is a little throatier. That’s it, that’s the entire difference.
For all intents and purposes, ro-day-oh is the same pronunciation as ro-deh-oh to 99% of English speakers.
But hey, if that’s what you need to pick nits about to feel superior to everyone, have a blast.