What difference does it make?
You like to watch animals attack other animals that have no way of escaping?
LOL. Where’d you hear these reports? Some animal rights propaganda machine?
I’ve twisted enough show steer tails to tell you no harm is done. Bulls are tough animals, and the spurs can’t be that painful to them (when bull riders actually get a chance to spur). And cattle prods are very wide used and useful tool to get cattle moving or to raise them when they are danger from being down.
And fragile horses. LOL. There still beasts of burden in much of the poorer world.
I’d like to see match up. See how good the hog dog was. Even if I thought that it was mean, I wouldn’t outlaw it since the feral hogs aren’t wildlife and the dogs are private property.
Neutral here. Although I do feel somewhat bad for the animals. Even though they are not physically hurt (up to debate anyways) I’m sure the event is stressfull on their puny little animal brains. For that, I don’t feel the slightest empathy if one of those riders totally gets owned by a bull/horse either. I feel more along the lines of “Teaches you right Hillbilly”.
I enjoy watching rodeo because I feel that the horses and bulls have a better chance of injuring the riders than getting injured themselves. Basically, I’m always rooting for the animals.
Anyhoo…
Except the animals didn’t choose to participate in this stressful and often painful sport while the people do it on their own free will.
:rolleyes: Non-rodeo animals don’t choose not to participate in rodeos, either. Oddly enough, animals aren’t agents in the same way that humans are, and they have trouble communicating their desires. To go on about animal “choice” is completely irrelevant at best, and flat out wrong at worst, since a lot of rodeo stock actually like bucking, so far as can be told.
Rodeo stock, generally speaking, have it pretty good compared to how they’d have it if they weren’t rodeo stock. They are not subjected to any significant pain, nor psychological trauma. Contrary to earlier claims, cattle aren’t particularly stupid. Once a bull’s been in the ring a couple times, he knows perfectly well what’s going to happen when the gate opens. Roping calves would have it worst from both the physical and psychological perspectives, but what they’re subjected to is no worse than any other incident where they’re captured and controlled for some procedure, whether that’s roping and tying for branding, or run through a chute into a headgate for a shot of antibiotics.
Animals won’t usually buck without the bucking strap, I doubt they enjoy bucking, is it really enjoyable to be first agitated by prods and tail twisting and then be sent out into an arena with a strap cinched tightly around your body and some guy with spurs on your back? I think it’s obvious when you watch them that they’re freaking out. The more experienced bulls know the routine and seem calmer though. Rodeo is better than living on a factory farm but that doesn’t mean it’s ok. Most of the animals end up as steak or horsemeat anyway so it’s not a whole lot better.
The International Professional Rodeo Association (IPRA), the nation’s second largest rodeo association doesn’t provide an on-site vet.
Imagine that instead of calf roping we had feral cat catching or we did something similar to dogs. There would be a huge public outcry because these animals are classified as our companions.
Real ranch people never routinely ride bulls or crazy horses or wrestle steers or put flank straps on animals or rope calves in 8 seconds.
According to the PRCA’s 2001 injury survey, there were 25 animal injuries requiring veterinary care at the 67 rodeos monitored (of 700). In 2000, 38 injuries were reported at 57 rodeos.
A bucking horse named “Great Plains” suffered a broken back on live TV at the National Finals Rodeo (NFR) in Las Vegas 2002. ESPN TV and the PRCA edited this out (7 second delay). ESPN TV’s rodeo coverage never shows the calf hitting the end of the rope and falling. Painkillers are never given to injured animals because any animals that don’t exit the ring unharmed will be sent of to slaughter and painkillers would ruin the meat.
Mexican style rodeos include events like horse tripping and steer tailing. In horse tripping, running horses are lassoed by the legs, which can cause broken legs or broken necks. This event has been banned in CA, FL, IL, ME, NM, OK, and TX. Steer tailing is when a mounted cowboy attempts to grab a running steer by the tail and drag it to the ground which sometimes breaks or tears the tail. Mounts are also in danger of being injured bu the steer.
holdmytail, I don’t know about bulls, but horses will buck for many reasons. Some really do seem to enjoy it. (Lucky for me, my horse doesn’t–much too much work for a lazy mare!) And if they do buck because of the strap, is that so bad? Is it an intense pain, or just an irritant?
As for the horse who broke its back, I agree that’s tragic. But, unfortunately, horses get injured in many sports. Racing, eventing, jumping, etc. You can find a fatal injury in just about every one. Sure, you try like hell to prevent it, but do you oppose all horse sports until the risk of injury is totally erradicated? Or are rodeo horses subjected to more injuries than in other sports?
I have heard of Mexican style rodeos and other pretty brutal things with “rodeo” somewhere in the name. Some sound really dreadful and I’m glad they’re illegal. But I don’t think it’s fair to lump them in all in the same bucket just because someone puts “rodeo” in the name.
Horses definately have a greater chance of getting injured at the rodeo than at a race. At a race the worst that usually happens is a torn ligament and rarely broken bones. The utmost care is taken to protect the horses’ legs and vets are almost always on-site. In a rodeo the horse is not protected, a vet is on-site only sometimes, and their performance is more dangerous. You’re more likely to hurt yourself struggling or in the arena with panicking cattle than running down a race track. But race horses sometimes end up at the slaughterhouse also.
In addition, the message sent out at a race is different. A race shows the speed and agility of the horse and the ability of the rider to communicate with his/her mount. It demonstrates the horses strength and the rider’s skill.
A rodeo sends the message that horses are wild, vicious animals and that the riders bravely conquer and establish superiority over the horses. It’s kind of like when people hunt elephants to show how powerful they (the hunter) are except the horses don’t suffer as bad a plight, that is until they get injured (off to the slaughterhouse).
Oh fercryinoutloud! That is the most ridiculous thing I’ve ever heard. First off, horses at rodeos in the non-bucking events (team roping, calf roping, bulldogging, barrel racing) demonstrate speed/agility/communication with rider to at least as great a degree as at any race. More, when we’re talking about roping, perhaps not so much with bulldogging.
The bucking events don’t send the message that horses are wild and vicious either (well, the occasional saddle bronc actually is vicious, but that’s the exception). It’s a contest between the brute strength of the horse and the finesse of the rider. I challenge you to find a single bronc rider who thinks he’s “bravely conquering and establishing superiority over horses.” So far as I can tell, they all love horses, have a tremendous respect for the strength and agility of the beasts, and enjoy the challenge that presents - not because they want to prove they’re superior, but to prove they’re up to the challenge. It’s not a competition between horse and rider. It’s a competition between the riders.
They might be illegal where bigotry and nutcase animal rights activists are powerful motivators for legislatures. But they are perfectly legal where I am at. And they certainly aren’t cruel (unless you are of the opinion that rodeos in general are cruel, and in that I case disagree vehemently anyway).
I take that back bigots and the pathetic animal right nutcases have outlawed some Charreada events in my state. Pathetic useless cocksuckers that they are. :mad: It just proves that the US has a problem with both hate and common sense.
Cite?
FWIW, a friend of mine grew up as a cowgirl on a working ranch in New Mexico and participated in rodeos on a regular basis. She’s also ridden racehorses. She told me that she’d much rather deal with a ranch horse than a racehorse. Y’see, ranch horses need to be smart and agile and cooperate with their riders–but racehorses, on the other hand, have been bred and trained so they do one thing really well: run fast in a straight line. A rodeo is a much better demonstration of what a good horse is capable of.
I apologize for being late to the discussion, but when you start a rodeo topic on the weekend of the Fourth, you’re bound to miss out on those of us who were actually out rodeoing. Just got back this afternoon, and it was a quiet weekend, since we decided to only hit one instead of the three going on in the norht state. Some of our friends were on the road for hours.
Let me give you some background here - I’m not a rodeo participant; I’m more of a rodeo mom. We are on the committee to put on one rodeo and one big roping. I support my boyfriend, a team roper, and his son, a team roper and calf roper. We have our own steers and calves to practice on, and of course, our own roping horses.
Yeah, you got all this information from watching rodeo on tv a few times, did you? Have you ever actualyl been to one? Some horses and bulls are natural buckers. Our uncle had one not a year ago. This horse was actually broke to ride, but was extremely treacherous. We figured out that he lived to buck, and put a halter on him and let him rip. Yup, he’s a bucker. He works even better with a flank strap, but he bucks without it. No, a flank strap does not touch their genitals. It’s tight around their belly. This horse was sold to a rough stock outfit. They pay good money for bucking horses, and they don’t mistreat them. I walked through the roughstock pen at the rodeo we were at just yesterday without any of them trying to kill me.
Really? I wonder just what real ranch people you know, because that happens all the time. Some of it’s just for fun, if you can call bull riding fun, but a lot of it is derived from real ranch work. Just exactly what did you plan to do with the 800 pound steer with pink eye who needs to be treated out in the boondocks, if not to rope him and throw him down? We rope calves all the time in the branding pen - they’re not going to get branded or vaccinated if we don’t.
I’ll have to accept your cite on this one, but you’re twisting the statistics. 25 injuries at 67 rodeos sounds like many more animals injured than actual injuries per animal used. Let’s say there are 20 contestants per performance event; that might be a little high at some of the small rodeos we go to, but it’s probably an underestimate at the biggies.
So, there are 20 bulls, 20 saddle bronc horses, 20 bareback horses, 20 steer wrestling steers, 20 calves, and 20 team roping steeers. Plus the 20 calf roping horses, 20 steer wrestling horses plus 20 hazers, and 40 team roping horses, and 20 barrel racers. Add the flaggers, who use three or four horses during the roping events, and the (say three) pickup men, who use probably two or three horses each during the whole of the rough stock events to catch the cowboys and move the bucking stock out of the arena.
That’s 250 animals, just in the performance.
Now, don’t forget, most of the timed events are run in the slack. If 50 cowboys enter the calf roping, they can’t put them all in the performance, so they are run either before or after. Sometimes that happens in the rough stock events too, but not as many.
So in the slack, give me 40 more barrel racers, maybe 20 more calf ropers and steer wrestlers, and at least 50 more team roping teams. But they don’t get separate animals - the steers and calves are reused. So maybe 160 more animals, but if you want to count the runs each steer makes as a distinct animal, go ahead and call it 230 more animals. That’s 480 per rodeo.
And how many rodeos did that study count? 67 in 2001? Times 480 animals, that’s 32,160 animals.
With 25 injuries, you say? What is that, .07%? Crap, now you’re making me do math.
Are you sure? Because I was at the 2002 NFR, and I do remember a bull breaking his back, but not a horse. Yes, I’m not going to argue that it’s a horrifying injury, but were you there to hear the silence of the crowd when that happened? It’s really unusual, we don’t like it when it happens, and to tell you the truth, we don’t like it when it happens to our own stock either.
I’d like to know what channel you’re watching. ESPN may not show that, but they don’t actually show many rodeos either, and they have major edits for time when they do. OLN, now, shows that plenty.
And in calf roping, the goal is not to have the calf hit the end of the rope and fall over. Besides being hard on the calf, the cowboy has to go to the end of the rope, pick the calf up, and then flank him down again to make it fair.
We have our own calves, which we use to practice on. After they’re roped and tied, the helper (yours truly fairly often) has to run out and untie the calf without getting kicked in the process. These are substantial animals, and they jump up and run off, clearly unhurt. We did lose one to pneumonia this year, but we treat them well.
Huh, all I can say to that is that we treat our animals well, give them painkillers in the rare event that they need it and a lot of preventative medicine. And they don’t bring good prices for meat anyway.
I gotta say that I don’t know squat about Mexican style rodeos, except that some of the Mexicans around here are some damned fine horse trainers.
I think this holdmytail person is pulling a lot of cites off some television that he or she might have caught a part of a few years ago. Sounds like someone that’s made up some principlies based on what he/she thinks rodeo is like, without actually knowing anything about it. Anthropomorphize much?
I’m against exploitation of animals for entertainment purposes. I hate circuses, rodeos, most zoo-related activities, petting zoos, animal acts, and most horseback riding stuff. I have cats, I’ve had a dog, and I’ve had birds and snakes. I don’t feel bad about the cats because they live the life they want to live. They even catch mice for me. I’ve just never seen a “show” animal that looked happy.
I’m OK with eating meat and using animals, such as plow horses, if that’s the only way you can work your land. I just don’t like to see the animals live a horrible existence.
This is good timing - as the Calgary Stampede starts this Friday.
I am not opposed to rodeo in any way, or chuckwagon races. I wish I could spend more time at the rodeo, but I am ridiculously allergic to pretty much all that entails.
Having said this - I have seen some horrific chuckwagon crashes, at least one of which where a horse had to be put down. There have also been crashes that have killed drivers - there’s no arguing it’s a somewhat dangerous sport. On the other hand - those horses WANT to run. I have no cite for this, but I have heard that many chuckwagon horses are retired racehorses who would long ago have been put down. The drivers and their families take very good care of these animals - they are their livlihood.
I have also seen a calf-roping event where the calf’s neck appeared to have been broken, and the animal was later put down.
Having been stepped on, charged, and thrown over, through, and against all sorts of fences by cattle, I can categorically say that they are big, stupid, dangerous creatures. I don’t have anything against anyone getting on the back of one and trying to stay on for 8 seconds (to be fair, we once had a bull who would actually let you ride him - he seemed to realize that he outweighed me by about 2000 pounds so maybe he wasn’t so stupid after all - but then again, I ended up eating him, so I think I won out in the long run).