# Rodney King, wife beater. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 15, 2003, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rodney-king-wife-beater/207483 "2003-10-15T00:42:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![bojon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3da27b/32.png) [@bojon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bojon)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2003, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rodney-king-wife-beater/207483/101 "2003-10-16T01:22:05Z")
AIRMAN DOORS USAF, your opinion is the same as as great deal of people. Rock on…Come to LA, we’ll treat you like a king… ---
**Author:** ![Zenster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/cdc98d/32.png) [@Zenster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zenster)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2003, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rodney-king-wife-beater/207483/102 "2003-10-16T01:37:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by bojon \* > AIRMAN DOORS USAF, your opinion is the same as as great deal of people. Rock on…Come to LA, we’ll treat you like a king… Yeah, sure. But _which kind of_ King? ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2003, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rodney-king-wife-beater/207483/103 "2003-10-16T01:41:54Z")
I’m still befuddled about this online/offline asshole/swellguy dissconnect. I guess one of the deep mysteries of the universe. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2003, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rodney-king-wife-beater/207483/104 "2003-10-16T01:43:24Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by bojon \* > \*\*AIRMAN DOORS USAF, your opinion is the same as as great deal of people. Rock on…Come to LA, we’ll treat you like a king… \*\* And you are a fucking ass! :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![El\_Cid\_Viscoso](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/41988e/32.png) [@El\_Cid\_Viscoso](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Cid_Viscoso)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2003, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rodney-king-wife-beater/207483/105 "2003-10-16T01:49:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by World Eater \* > > I’m still befuddled about this online/offline asshole/swellguy dissconnect. It’s the “magic beans.” I’m sure Dean Koontz is a nice guy, deep down… ---
**Author:** ![Reeder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Reeder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reeder)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2003, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rodney-king-wife-beater/207483/106 "2003-10-16T02:51:12Z")
> [@](#): > > Whatever you say on the SDMB, as far as I am concerned, stays right here. My archenemy here, Reeder… Wow…I have an archenemy?? I’ve never had an arch anything before. Well…I do have arches. I’m impressed. As for the OP…This is not the first time wingnut has shown himself to be a jerk. Y’all reckon he was a Brownshirt in a former life? ---
**Author:** ![Zenster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/cdc98d/32.png) [@Zenster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zenster)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2003, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rodney-king-wife-beater/207483/107 "2003-10-16T03:05:02Z")
Arches, I remember them. I once had Roman arches, but they fell. Do you know how painful the inserts are for Roman arches? ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2003, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rodney-king-wife-beater/207483/108 "2003-10-16T03:31:06Z")
> [@](#): > > gobear, Airman Doors has been an ass for the past couple of weeks. So, **Juanita**. You’re saying you’ve been asleep for the previous two and one half years? :eek: ---
**Author:** ![blowero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/41988e/32.png) [@blowero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blowero)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2003, 7:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rodney-king-wife-beater/207483/109 "2003-10-16T07:13:51Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by mhendo \* > That’s right, folks. Everyone who opposes police brutality is also a supporter of criminal behavior. > > What some of the dopier Dopers don’t seem to realize is that the following two opinions: > > 1. Rodney King is a criminal and an asshole > > 2. There is no excuse for excessive use of force by police. > > do not represent mutually exclusive positions. > > And in case you don’t get it, this applies on a general level as well. I am full of admiration for cops who really see themselves as peace officers and who do their best in a difficult job. And i have little time for wife-beaters, drug-dealers, murderers and all the other assholes who make police work such a strain. > … > But the difficulty of police work does not excuse brutality. If you can’t cope, don’t do the work. > … Couldn’t have said it better myself. And Airman, speaking for myself, any comments I have made are solely in response to what you have posted. If my comments were nasty, it’s because I vehemently disagreed with what you said. As far as what kind of a person you are at home, I don’t think that’s any of my business. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2003, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rodney-king-wife-beater/207483/110 "2003-10-16T13:51:26Z")
> [@](#): > > ## \*Originally posted by mhendo \* quote: > > ## _Originally posted by Shodan_ The police are condemned because they can’t stop on a dime when using justified force. The criminals are excused, when they don’t even try. > > \*\*You conservatives love trotting out that old shibboleth, don’t you. > > That’s right, folks. Everyone who opposes police brutality is also a supporter of criminal behavior. > \*\* No, not everyone. But if Rodney King violently resists arrest, while on parole from prison and driving drunk, and get $3.8 million and a walk on his crimes, and the arresting officers go to prison for hitting him six times more than he needed to be, I would call that condemning the police and excusing the criminal. And when someone posts something as stupid and inflammatory as **World Eater** did, and implies that shooting people and sodomizing them with broom handles is a daily occurence for the police, I would say that too much weight is being given to alleged incidents of brutality by the police and not enough to the crimes that trigger the incidents. As, again, with Rodney King. > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by blowero \*\*\* > Stop on a dime!!! Dude, they didn’t stop on a FOOTBALL FIELD. And they were hardly condemned; they virtually got off scott-free._\* Two and a half years in prison is virtually scot-free? The findings of the first trial was that of the 56 times King got hit, all but the last five or six were justified as necessary force used to effect an arrest. But you call an error of roughly +10% more than a “FOOTBALL FIELD” away. Hmmmm… Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Beagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/85f322/32.png) [@Beagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beagle)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2003, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rodney-king-wife-beater/207483/111 "2003-10-16T13:56:35Z")
Glad mhendo was nice enough to explain that as I was a bit short. “Crocodile wrestling,” as I said, does not involve beating the crocodile with clubs when it is lying on the ground. To flog the analogy, then you jump on it and duct tape it. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2003, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rodney-king-wife-beater/207483/112 "2003-10-16T14:11:23Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Shodan \* > \*\*No, not everyone. > > But if Rodney King violently resists arrest, while on parole from prison and driving drunk, and get $3.8 million and a walk on his crimes, and the arresting officers go to prison for hitting him six times more than he needed to be, I would call that condemning the police and excusing the criminal. \*\* The question is was he _violently_ resisting arrest? As far as everything being peachy until the last 6 hits, I’ll have to disagree with you there. I would have thrown King and the Cops in jail, and no $3.8 million. \*\* > [@](#): > > And when someone posts something as stupid and inflammatory as **World Eater** did, and implies that shooting people and sodomizing them with broom handles is a daily occurence for the police\*\* Just pointing out that a few officers are capable of horrible acts at worst and shitty judgement at best. It is a perfectly reasonable assumption that the King officers could have been part of this very small minority. \*\* > [@](#): > > I would say that too much weight is being given to alleged incidents of brutality by the police and not enough to the crimes that trigger the incidents. As, again, with Rodney King. \*\* King is a grade A asshole and criminal, no dispute there, but spin it anyway you want, he didn’t deserve that beatdown \*\* > [@](#): > > The findings of the first trial was that of the 56 times King got hit, all but the last five or six were justified as necessary force used to effect an arrest. But you call an error of roughly +10% more than a “FOOTBALL FIELD” away.\*\* I happen to think this is a load of shit, YMMV. ---
**Author:** ![LonesomePolecat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a88e57/32.png) [@LonesomePolecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonesomePolecat)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2003, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rodney-king-wife-beater/207483/113 "2003-10-16T14:15:57Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by UncleBill \* > \*\*Quit being a twit, **Airman Doors, USAF**. Advocating the beating of a man when he is NOT resisting arrest is low … \*\* If you think King wasn’t resisting arrest, you are a total shitbrain. ---
**Author:** ![Beagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/85f322/32.png) [@Beagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beagle)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2003, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rodney-king-wife-beater/207483/114 "2003-10-16T14:46:38Z")
If what happened to Rodeny King reflected LAPD policy of how to take down an irrational, violent suspect alleged to be a PCP user — LA needs to take some lessons from the Philly cops. Talking to him and whacking him with clubs to get compliance is bound not to work, and is a shitty policy to begin with. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2003, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rodney-king-wife-beater/207483/115 "2003-10-16T18:41:20Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Beagle \* > \*\*If what happened to Rodeny King reflected LAPD policy of how to take down an irrational, violent suspect alleged to be a PCP user — LA needs to take some lessons from the Philly cops. Talking to him and whacking him with clubs to get compliance is bound not to work, and is a shitty policy to begin with. \*\* The trouble being that choke holds and other kinds of restraint tactics are illegal under California state law, the idea being to arrest suspects in a more humane way. IIRC, this was triggered by the death of some suspects after being choked out. LAPD had no choice in the matter - the Tazers didn’t work. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by World Eater \* > \*\*The question is was he violently resisting arrest? As far as everything being peachy until the last 6 hits, I’ll have to disagree with you there. > \*\* It depends on how you define “violently resisting arrest”. If your definition includes trying to escape by driving at over 100 mph (while legally drunk), charging the police multiple times, getting knocked down and getting back up repeatedly, being Tazered (twice) and continuing to fight, yes, I guess you could say he was “violently resisting arrest”. If your understanding was that he was on his way home from choir practice, got pulled over for a busted headlight or something, was asked politely to step out of the car, complied, and then was beaten senseless for Driving While Black, you may want to reconsider your position. As I think I mentioned, the two other people in the car, who did NOT resist arrest, weren’t beaten, and they were just as black as King is. King was not beaten because of any desire by the police towards vigilantism. He was beaten in an attempt to arrest him, because the police had already exhausted every other option available to them under state law. And the beating went on about 10% too long. As I said, the police were condemned because they could not or did not stop hitting a big, mean, drunken convicted felon who was determined not to return to prison and resisted arrest quite soon enough. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by World Eater \* > \*\*I would have thrown King and the Cops in jail, and no $3.8 million. > \*\* I agree with two thirds of this. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![blowero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/41988e/32.png) [@blowero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blowero)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2003, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rodney-king-wife-beater/207483/116 "2003-10-16T19:20:18Z")
O.K., time to dispel some ignorance: > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Shodan \* > But if Rodney King violently resists arrest, while on parole from prison and driving drunk, and get $3.8 million and a walk on his crimes, and the arresting officers go to prison for hitting him six times more than he needed to be, I would call that condemning the police and excusing the criminal. The first trial was a sham. Anyone who saw the video, and has 2 brain cells to rub together, can see that “hitting him six times more than he needed to be”, is the understatement of the last two centuries. [http://www.crimsonbird.com/history/rodneyking.htm](http://www.crimsonbird.com/history/rodneyking.htm) > [@](#): > > When police finally stopped the car, they delivered 56 baton blows and six kicks to King, in a period of two minutes, producing 11 skull fractures, brain damage, and kidney damage. > … > The trial of the police officers was relocated from Los Angeles to the suburb of Simi Valley, in Ventura County, despite objections of the prosecution that the two communities have “different demographics.” The jury was selected from a **neighborhood in which many people have friends or family members who are police officers** , but the likelihood of pro-police bias was not viewed by the court as a prejudice to dismiss prospective jurors. > > On the witness stand, Koon and Powell explained that they beat Rodney King because he failed to follow instructions. Specifically, although King did lie face-down on the ground, as the officers instructed him to, he ignored their orders to keep his arms straight out to the sides. He had his elbows bent, with his hands closer to his shoulders. Police described this as “a push-up position” and interpreted it as an indication that King was preparing to try to get up off the ground. Therefore, Koon and Powell insisted, they were not permitted by the rule book to handcuff King at that time; they were required by regulations to continue to beat King with their batons, and shock him with the taser, until such time as his arms would be straight, and only then, handcuff him. > > The number of police on the scene when Rodney King was beaten included 21 officers from the Los Angeles Police Department (LAPD) and 4 officers from the California Highway Patrol. With 25 officers present, it would have been feasible to handcuff King at any time. Nevertheless, Koon and Powell testified, formal police procedures forbade them to handcuff the suspect until he complied with their orders to straighten his arm out. > [Blowero’s comment: Smells like bullshit to me] > … > > Briseno testified that King was **lying on the ground, and not trying to get up** , when the other officers **continued to beat and kick him**. When asked under oath whether King “never tried to get up,” Briseno replied, “That’s correct.” Briseno was asked why he can be seen pushing Powell away from King, at a particular point in the video. Briseno explained: “I didn’t see Mr. King moving, and **I thought Officer Powell was out of control**.” He elaborated: “I just couldn’t understand why they were continuing what I saw there was no reason for.” > > ``` > Police officer Melanie Singer of the California Highway Patrol had driven the patrol car that chased King's car. She was the first officer to instruct King to move away from the vehicle and to assume a prone position on the ground. However, the other officers then took over. Later in court, Singer testified that King at first danced around jokingly, wiggling his buttocks, but eventually followed police instructions to lie face-down on the ground. She described in vivid terms how **the baton blows "split open King's face" and "blood poured out," while King "screamed." She said the other officers used the baton with "power strokes" (motions similar the swinging of a baseball bat.) She testified that it was her opinion that excessive police force was used.** > > ``` > > [Blowero’s comment: OTHER OFFICERS ON THE SCENE thought excessive force was used. What does that tell you?] The jury consisted of ten whites, one Hispanic, and one Filipino-American. There were no blacks on the jury. In fact, Simi Valley is a predominately white community that is known for being a favorite place for police officers to live. But hey, Shodan, why don’t you just go ahead and continue spouting off about the findings of that jury as if it’s incontrovertible fact.:rolleyes: > [@](#): > > Two and a half years in prison is virtually scot-free? Get your facts straight; they only served 2 years. And read this (from the Crimson Bird article): > [@](#): > > August 4, 1993 – The sentencing date of Koon and Powell. The maximum allowed penalty would have been 10 years in prison and a $250,000 fine. They were sentenced to 30 months in prison. > > Koon and Powell were sent to the Federal Prison Camp at Dublin, California. The prison is one often used to house so-called white-collar criminals (e.g., Wall Street tycoon Michael Milken spent two years there). The prison is nicknamed “Club Fed” because it is “a prison without walls, fences, bars, gun towers or guns”, and escapees are called “walkaways.” Prisoners eat in a dining room with a salad bar, and are provided recreational facilities, including video rentals, gardening, a asphalt jogging track, a sand volleyball court, and a weightlifting room. (From the Los Angeles Times, October 13, 1993) Controversy was raised when this facility was compared to California’s other prisons, which have “death fences” designed to electrocute escapees. (Los Angeles Times, October 27, 1993). [http://www.cali.org/riots/time\_line.html](http://www.cali.org/riots/time_line.html) > [@](#): > > Laurence Powell and Stacey Koon are released from prison after serving 24 months of their sentences. 24 months in a country club prison? Yeah, that’s pretty light, considering what they did. ---
**Author:** ![blowero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/41988e/32.png) [@blowero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blowero)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2003, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rodney-king-wife-beater/207483/117 "2003-10-16T19:40:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Shodan \* > It depends on how you define “violently resisting arrest”. If your definition includes trying to escape by driving at over 100 mph (while legally drunk) The fact that you see a connection between the speed King was _driving_, and what the cops did to him after he was lying on the ground shows that you have no clue what you’re talking about. The ONLY issue is whether they _needed_ to continue hitting him in order to take him into custody. Driving 100 mph has got fuck-all to do with it. > [@](#): > > charging the police multiple times, getting knocked down and getting back up repeatedly, being Tazered (twice) and continuing to fight, yes, I guess you could say he was “violently resisting arrest” Uh, that’s not what the officers were tried for. They were tried for what they did AFTER King was lying on the ground. You don’t seem to understand the difference between restraint and punishment. > [@](#): > > King was not beaten because of any desire by the police towards vigilantism. He was beaten in an attempt to arrest him, because the police had already exhausted every other option available to them under state law. And the beating went on about 10% too long. Even if your “10% too long” were not completely arbitrary, and quite obviously a gross underestimate, the fact would still remain that they shouldn’t have “gone on too long” AT ALL. A good rule of thumb might be: If the suspect is lying motionless on the ground, you maybe would want to think about stopping busting his skull open. > [@](#): > > As I said, the police were condemned because they could not or did not stop hitting a big, mean, drunken convicted felon who was determined not to return to prison and resisted arrest quite soon enough. Despite the absurd spin you’re trying to put on it, I can see that you agree that the officers in question did wrong. That is, unless you think their job description includes hitting people “for too long”. ---
**Author:** ![Blonde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3be4f8/32.png) [@Blonde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blonde)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2003, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rodney-king-wife-beater/207483/118 "2003-10-17T00:50:00Z")
I doubt anyone would agree what the police did that day was humane or right - but it sort of sucks to think so many lost their lives in the aftermath for the sake of a man who turned out to be a loser, eh? ---
**Author:** ![blowero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/41988e/32.png) [@blowero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blowero)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2003, 6:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rodney-king-wife-beater/207483/119 "2003-10-17T06:15:58Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Blonde \* > I doubt anyone would agree what the police did that day was humane or right Well, you wouldn’t think so, but then our friends Airman and Shodan seem to think it was perfectly justified. > [@](#): > > - but it sort of sucks to think so many lost their lives in the aftermath for the sake of a man who turned out to be a loser, eh? I don’t think anyone’s saying King is a saint or anything; that’s not the point. Christ, you guys are treating this like it’s news or something - like people were planning to elect him president until this latest news story came out. We’ve known the guy was a loser for years. Unless you are saying that the police are justified in beating people up for being losers, I don’t see what your point is. ---
**Author:** ![Beagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/85f322/32.png) [@Beagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beagle)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2003, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rodney-king-wife-beater/207483/120 "2003-10-17T14:08:08Z")
If that is the case, CA needs to figure out some what to restrain people without beating or shooting them – and also without holding them. I know CA leads the way on a number of things, but sometimes they lead the way right over a cliff – like the fastest lemming. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rodney-king-wife-beater/207483.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rodney-king-wife-beater/207483.md?page=7)