# Roger Clemens Verdict is In: Not Guilty
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roger-clemens-verdict-is-in-not-guilty/625566
**Category:** The Game Room
**Created:** [June 18, 2012, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roger-clemens-verdict-is-in-not-guilty/625566 "2012-06-18T20:50:44Z")
**Posts on this page:** 9
**Page:** 3
### Author:  [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)
#### Post date: [June 22, 2012, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roger-clemens-verdict-is-in-not-guilty/625566/41 "2012-06-22T17:40:42Z")
> [@BlankSlate](#):
>
> It’s ironic that the Baseball Writers Association of America (BBWAA) might be the group responsible for denying Bonds a place in the Hall of Fame.
I never heard anything that made me think he wanted to impress the writers in particular, so I don’t see a lot of irony there. Sure, the writers were like the fans in that they were paying more attention to the guys hitting home runs. But I think people would have recognized in time that he was a much better all-around player than a Sosa or McGwire, and if Bonds had stayed clean and the rest of the steroid era had played out the same way, he would have been regarded as a vastly superior player. Think about the way people look at players they are sure were clean like Frank Thomas or Ken Griffey Jr.
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### Author:  [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)
#### Post date: [June 22, 2012, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roger-clemens-verdict-is-in-not-guilty/625566/42 "2012-06-22T17:58:57Z")
> [@BlankSlate](#):
>
> The Hall needs a big exhibit explaining the “steroid era”
I meant to respond to this. In time I think that’ll happen. It’s a large chunk of baseball history and with enough distance, I think the hall will figure out a way to put the period in context. Possibly while downplaying a nickname that screams “illegal drug abuse.” 😉
> [@](#):
>
> the writers need to enshrine the players with deserving career numbers. That means Clemens and Bonds should be in first ballot.
Just to quibble with this a bit- it’s not the hall of numbers and I don’t mind if they refuse to honor guys who cheated. In time Clemens and Bonds guys will probably be elected and I expect McGwire and Sosa and probably even Palmeiro won’t. There was a time you were definitely in if you have 500 homers, let alone 600, but the era they played in (and the drugs they took) devalued their achievements relative to other players and eras. For Bonds and Clemens, there’s enough evidence they were hall-worth guys before the cheating.
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### Author:  [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)
#### Post date: [June 22, 2012, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roger-clemens-verdict-is-in-not-guilty/625566/43 "2012-06-22T18:08:05Z")
> [@Marley23](#):
>
> I never heard anything that made me think he wanted to impress the writers in particular, so I don’t see a lot of irony there. Sure, the writers were like the fans in that they were paying more attention to the guys hitting home runs. But I think people would have recognized in time that he was a much better all-around player than a Sosa or McGwire, and if Bonds had stayed clean and the rest of the steroid era had played out the same way, he would have been regarded as a vastly superior player. Think about the way people look at players they are sure were clean like Frank Thomas or Ken Griffey Jr.
The irony (a bit of a stretch, admittedly) is that the BBWAA both puts players in the Hall _and_ decides who wins the MVP. Their ineptitude in the latter helped create the Barry-beast.
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### Author:  [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)
#### Post date: [June 22, 2012, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roger-clemens-verdict-is-in-not-guilty/625566/44 "2012-06-22T18:31:10Z")
> [@BlankSlate](#):
>
> The irony (a bit of a stretch, admittedly) is that the BBWAA both puts players in the Hall _and_ decides who wins the MVP.
I know, and I’ve never thought that Bonds cared.
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### Author:  [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)
#### Post date: [June 22, 2012, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roger-clemens-verdict-is-in-not-guilty/625566/45 "2012-06-22T18:44:16Z")
Marley23:
> [@](#):
>
> I know, and I’ve never thought that Bonds cared.
Maybe his contract had an MVP bonus?
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### Author:  [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)
#### Post date: [June 22, 2012, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roger-clemens-verdict-is-in-not-guilty/625566/46 "2012-06-22T18:46:50Z")
> [@Marley23](#):
>
> I know, and I’ve never thought that Bonds cared.
You don’t think Bonds cared about being recognized? I think he cared deeply and I’ve heard several anecdotal stories over the years stating that he felt slighted. For an ego-maniac like Bonds, it would be a matter of getting the respect he felt he deserved. I’m sure he didn’t care what a bunch of pencil-necked geek writers thought of him personally, but anoint McGwire as the best player in the game? No way.
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### Author:  [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)
#### Post date: [June 22, 2012, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roger-clemens-verdict-is-in-not-guilty/625566/47 "2012-06-22T18:50:05Z")
> [@BlankSlate](#):
>
> You don’t think Bonds cared about being recognized?
Sure he did. I just don’t think he particularly cared about the writers so much as he thought everybody should agree he was the best. So I don’t think the BBWAA is particularly responsible.
> [@Marley23](#):
>
> I never heard anything that made me think he wanted to impress the writers in particular, so I don’t see a lot of irony there. Sure, the writers were like the fans in that they were paying more attention to the guys hitting home runs.
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### Author:  [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)
#### Post date: [June 22, 2012, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roger-clemens-verdict-is-in-not-guilty/625566/48 "2012-06-22T19:11:44Z")
So, to re-cap:
Barry thinks everyone should agree he is the best.
The BBWAA fails to recognize his awesomeness, awards Sosa the MVP.
Barry decides he wants to hit a bazillion home runs, eats, injects, snorts and rubs on every steroid known to man.
Hiits a bazillion home runs.
The BBWAA might keep Bonds out of the Hall because they think he cheated.
IT’S FUCKING IRONIC, MOTHERFUCKER!
😛
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### Author:  [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)
#### Post date: [June 22, 2012, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roger-clemens-verdict-is-in-not-guilty/625566/49 "2012-06-22T19:19:20Z")
> [@BlankSlate](#):
>
> The irony (a bit of a stretch, admittedly) is that the BBWAA both puts players in the Hall _and_ decides who wins the MVP. Their ineptitude in the latter helped create the Barry-beast.
Look, writers may not have liked Barry Bonds, but how many MVP awards did they give him?
SEVEN! Including three they gave him BEFORE he bulked up and started hitting homers.
Got that? Even BEFORE he started juicing, the writers gave Barry Bonds as many MVP awards as they did to Mantle, Musial or Dimaggio.
He has NO real, legitimate beef with the press on that score.
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