# Roger Clemens Vs. Kerry Wood **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 3, 2003, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roger-clemens-vs-kerry-wood/179401 "2003-06-03T16:50:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2003, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roger-clemens-vs-kerry-wood/179401/21 "2003-06-03T21:10:15Z")
> [@](#): > > I’d love to see Roger taken down about fifty notches by the next generation of awesome pitchers. I’d betcha anything nobody in the “next generation of awesome pitchers” is going to win 300 games. You can’t take a guy who’s about to accomplish one of the rarest feats in baseball down very many pegs. > [@](#): > > How can we forget that great home-grown Yankee talent like Mussina, Clemens, Weaver, Contreras, Giambi, Matsui, Mondesi, Ventura and Wells. And that past home-grown core of O’Neil, Brosius, Boggs, Martinez and Knoblauch. He said the CORE of the team, and he’s not wrong. > [@](#): > > And in any case, the Yankees are evil, their owner is a jerk, they are ruining baseball just as much as those jerks like Pohlad and Glass who refuse to spend the money on their team to let them keep their teams together. The Yankees aren’t even my #1 team, but most of this stuff is a bunch of sour-grapes crap. Any other team would spend money like the Yankees do if they could. In fact, several do - and it’s not a guarantee of anything. See the Mets now, and the Rangers, Orioles and Dodgers of recent years. I’d agree that losers like Pohlad are awful for sports, though. [Not a Steinbrenner fan, by the way, he’s an insufferable prick. But he’s not the ruin of baseball.] > [@](#): > > Plus, their fans tend to be insufferable know-nothings who still believe Jeter is the best SS in baseball. Jeter’s teams have won 6 division titles (including 5 in a row), 5 AL pennants, and 4 World Series. And he led the majors in hits from '96 to '01. A-Rod was on one division-winning Seattle team. Tejada’s A’s have two. Nomar’s got zip so far. I don’t think, actually, that any of the three have even played in an ALCS. Rodriguez is unbelievable and probably the best player in the game. I suppose some misguided fools might think results count for something. ---
**Author:** ![Kyla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/eada6e/32.png) [@Kyla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyla)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2003, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roger-clemens-vs-kerry-wood/179401/22 "2003-06-03T21:10:56Z")
Rooting for the Cubs is a waste of my valuable supporting skills, but I’d be perfectly happy if Clemens never got that 300th win. As has been noted previous, the Yankees are evil, and so are all of their fans. Yankees fans, REPENT!!! ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2003, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roger-clemens-vs-kerry-wood/179401/23 "2003-06-03T21:17:00Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Neurotik \* > \*\*. > > And in any case, the Yankees are evil, their owner is a jerk, they are ruining baseball just as much as those jerks like Pohlad and Glass who refuse to spend the money on their team to let them keep their teams together. Plus, their fans tend to be insufferable know-nothings who still believe Jeter is the best SS in baseball. \*\* Not at all- we Yankee fans know very well that the best shortstop in baseball, probably the best shortstop of all time, is languishing in Arlington, Texas, because he’d rather make tons of money than win a championship. A-Rod has $200 million, and Derek has the rings. I say Derek got the better bargain, but that’s just me. ---
**Author:** ![Etherman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/958977/32.png) [@Etherman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Etherman)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2003, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roger-clemens-vs-kerry-wood/179401/24 "2003-06-03T21:55:04Z")
And the best part of the game is going to be the first time Clemons steps to the plate. What’s Clemons’ BA in inter-league play? Hope Woods has that slider working Saturday ---
**Author:** ![mouthbreather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a698b9/32.png) [@mouthbreather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mouthbreather)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2003, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roger-clemens-vs-kerry-wood/179401/25 "2003-06-03T22:27:58Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Marley23 \* > \*\*I’d betcha anything nobody in the “next generation of awesome pitchers” is going to win 300 games. You can’t take a guy who’s about to accomplish one of the rarest feats in baseball down very many pegs. \*\* Even in the time of 5 man rotations, I’d be surprised if there isn’t one or two pitchers from each generation that will surpass 300. Clemens did it, Maddux will do it late next year. After that, IIRC, its going to be a while befora anyone does it again. But a few folks will. ---
**Author:** ![Neurotik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/91b2a8/32.png) [@Neurotik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neurotik)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2003, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roger-clemens-vs-kerry-wood/179401/26 "2003-06-03T22:46:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by cmosdes \* > \*\ ***Neurotik** > Just don’t go around calling “know-nothings” when in fact Yankee fans are no better or worse than any other team’s fans. There just happen to be a bandwagon full of them now that they are winning again. It will blow over. It always does when the winning stops. The you can find out who the real Yankee fans are. I’ll be there. Have been for 26 years. \*\* That’s a good point. I just get tired of reading East Coast sports columnists talk about how the EC, especially New York, has the most knowledgable sports fans in the country - when they are pretty much the same as most everyone else. > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Marley23_ > The Yankees aren’t even my #1 team, but most of this stuff is a bunch of sour-grapes crap. Any other team would spend money like the Yankees do if they could. In fact, several do - and it’s not a guarantee of anything. See the Mets now, and the Rangers, Orioles and Dodgers of recent years. I’d agree that losers like Pohlad are awful for sports, though.\*\* Of course they would. But they can’t. So it’s an unfair advantage. And yes, money doesn’t give you a guarantee, but it’s a hell of an advantage. Look at the most consistently competitive teams and they are, with the exception of Oakland and San Francisco, the ones with higher than average payrolls - Seattle, Atlanta, New York, Boston. Imagine what the A’s could do with another $50 million. Probably supplement the Big Three with Millwood or someone like that. The Yankees do spend it intelligently, for the most part, but it’s still an unfair advantage. > [@](#): > > **Jeter’s teams have won 6 division titles (including 5 in a row), 5 AL pennants, and 4 World Series. And he led the majors in hits from '96 to '01. > A-Rod was on one division-winning Seattle team. Tejada’s A’s have two. Nomar’s got zip so far. I don’t think, actually, that any of the three have even played in an ALCS. Rodriguez is unbelievable and probably the best player in the game. I suppose some misguided fools might think results count for something.** See? This is the kind of BS I’m talking about. Results count for something? Right - because if you stuck Tejada, Nomar or A-Rod in Jeter’s place they wouldn’t have seen the exact same success. Gimme a break. Jeter’s a good SS, but he’s not better than Nomar or A-Rod, although he might be about on the same level as Tejada. > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by astorian_ > A-Rod has $200 million, and Derek has the rings. I say Derek got the better bargain, but that’s just me.\*\* Oh, definitely. ---
**Author:** ![Troy\_McClure\_SF](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troy_mcclure_sf/32/4150_2.png) [@Troy\_McClure\_SF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Troy_McClure_SF)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2003, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roger-clemens-vs-kerry-wood/179401/27 "2003-06-03T23:45:53Z")
Well, since '98, I’ve had to hate the Cubs, but now that they’re Dusty’s New Team, I’ll have to cut them some slack. Kerry should write “K” on the balls he pitches to Clemens. And then, actually _get_ the K. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Myrr21](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Myrr21](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Myrr21)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2003, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roger-clemens-vs-kerry-wood/179401/28 "2003-06-03T23:50:54Z")
Yankees suck, and Clemens can fracture his arm for all I care. That traitor couldn’t be bothered to show up or shape up until somebody paid him EVEN more. He pulled the usual “take three seasons off after getting a big contract”, which isn’t unusual, but then he had the nerve to say that his mediocre performances were underappreciated. With any luck, he’ll never reach 300. ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2003, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roger-clemens-vs-kerry-wood/179401/29 "2003-06-03T23:56:11Z")
I would dearly love to see a pitcher’s duel. This is gonna be good (I hope!)… ---
**Author:** ![Laughing\_Lagomorph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/6bbea6/32.png) [@Laughing\_Lagomorph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Laughing_Lagomorph)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2003, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roger-clemens-vs-kerry-wood/179401/30 "2003-06-04T00:12:35Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by RickJay \* > \*\*Given the limited number of pitchers with 300 wins, it’s quite statistically unlikely three of them got their 300th win against the Cubs. I’d say history is not on Wood’s side; he’s probably pitching for the only franchise to ever lose three 300th wins. \*\* The flip side of that is that relatively few franchises have been around as long as the Cubs. 3 in a little over a century? That’s one roughly every 33 years. Off the top of my head several franchises haven’t even been around that long…Tampa Bay, Arizona, Toronto and Seattle, I think. How many 300th win games have been pitched against that crowd? So it may not be so unlikely. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Kyla \* > \*\*Yankees fans, REPENT!!! \*\* You can’t make me!!! Clemens is going to win 300, eventually. He is going to Cooperstown on the first ballot, and I bet neither the Cubs nor the Red Sox will win a World Series before then! Neener! Neener! 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Neurotik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/91b2a8/32.png) [@Neurotik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neurotik)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2003, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roger-clemens-vs-kerry-wood/179401/31 "2003-06-04T01:35:14Z")
Hmmm…looking like Sosa won’t be there to help out the Cubbies. Bad Sammy! Bad, bad Sammy! ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2003, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roger-clemens-vs-kerry-wood/179401/32 "2003-06-04T01:36:13Z")
Um… Speaking as a Cubs fan[sup]TM[/sup]… [Oops](http://espn.go.com/mlb/news/2003/0603/1562772.html) ---
**Author:** ![cmosdes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@cmosdes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmosdes)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2003, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roger-clemens-vs-kerry-wood/179401/33 "2003-06-04T02:03:50Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally posted by **Neurotik** > See? This is the kind of BS I’m talking about. Results count for something? Right - because if you stuck Tejada, Nomar or A-Rod in Jeter’s place they wouldn’t have seen the exact same success. Gimme a break. Jeter’s a good SS, but he’s not better than Nomar or A-Rod, although he might be about on the same level as Tejada You cannot possibly say for certain sticking any of those other SSs in Jeter’s job would have had the same results. As others pointed out, teams like Texas, NYM and LA have all proved gathering All-Stars doesn’t make a winning team. Is Jeter better? _shrug_ Who can say? Different situations and all that. The vocal minority of Yankee fans might argue. I think if you actually talked to real baseball fans who are Yankee fans you’d find most aren’t “know-nothings” and would agree that, yes, ARod’s and Nomar’s raw talents probably exceed Jeter’s. But Jeter is an undeniable force on a powerful team. It is just as equally unfair to try and deny how good Jeter is simply because you don’t like the Yankees. > [@](#): > > Originally by **Neurotik** > That’s a good point. I just get tired of reading East Coast sports columnists talk about how the EC, especially New York, has the most knowledgeable sports fans in the country - when they are pretty much the same as most everyone else. So let me see if I have this straight… you are judging Yankee fans to be know-nothings because papers on the East coast are telling people on the East coast (i.e., their CUSTOMERS) that people on the East coast are smart?! Like they’d sell a lot of papers/magazines calling their customers stupid?? You have a lot to learn about marketing to your audience. ---
**Author:** ![Neurotik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/91b2a8/32.png) [@Neurotik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neurotik)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2003, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roger-clemens-vs-kerry-wood/179401/34 "2003-06-04T02:10:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by cmosdes \* > **You cannot possibly say for certain sticking any of those other SSs in Jeter’s job would have had the same results. As others pointed out, teams like Texas, NYM and LA have all proved gathering All-Stars doesn’t make a winning team.** No, it doesn’t. And all of those have definite weaknesses. Texas spent a lot on hitting, but didn’t spend anything on pitching. LA has just the opposite problem (and aside from Brown and Gagne, remind me which All-Stars LA has?). The Mets just aged. A lot. > [@](#): > > **Is Jeter better? _shrug_ Who can say? Different situations and all that. The vocal minority of Yankee fans might argue. I think if you actually talked to real baseball fans who are Yankee fans you’d find most aren’t “know-nothings” and would agree that, yes, ARod’s and Nomar’s raw talents probably exceed Jeter’s. But Jeter is an undeniable force on a powerful team. It is just as equally unfair to try and deny how good Jeter is simply because you don’t like the Yankees.** No one is denying how good Jeter is. I even said he was a good shortstop, top 4. Just not as good as A-Rod or Nomar. If anyone says different (especially A-Rod, I’ll at least listen to arguments about Nomar vs Jeter) they are just being silly. > [@](#): > > \*\*So let me see if I have this straight… you are judging Yankee fans to be know-nothings because papers on the East coast are telling people on the East coast (i.e., their CUSTOMERS) that people on the East coast are smart?! Like they’d sell a lot of papers/magazines calling their customers stupid?? You have a lot to learn about marketing to your audience. \*\* Actually, no, I’m not talking about NY papers or something. I’m talking about East Coast reporters and columnists on ESPN or working for SI like Gammons, etc. Their audience is just as much West Coast as East Coast. So, please don’t try to tell me I need to learn about marketing to my audience. ---
**Author:** ![Kyla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/eada6e/32.png) [@Kyla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyla)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2003, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roger-clemens-vs-kerry-wood/179401/35 "2003-06-04T02:49:40Z")
The people _I_ always hear are the most knowledgeable are the St. Louisans. Props to the Cardinals fans. No props go to Cheatin’ Sammy Sosa, though. ---
**Author:** ![doctordoowop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecc23a/32.png) [@doctordoowop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doctordoowop)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2003, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roger-clemens-vs-kerry-wood/179401/36 "2003-06-04T04:14:00Z")
Let’s see-didn’t Clemens throw a broken bat at Piazza & lie & say he thought it was a ball? Besides being a bad lie, he insulted our intelligence w/. that excuse. ---
**Author:** ![BobT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e8cbc/32.png) [@BobT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobT)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2003, 10:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roger-clemens-vs-kerry-wood/179401/37 "2003-06-04T10:09:10Z")
In interleague play, Clemens is 4 for 19 with 2 doubles and 1 RBI. In World Series play, Clemens is 0 for 6. Coming into this season, Kerry Wood was 38 for 214 with 4 HRs. ---
**Author:** ![tiny\_ham](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a183cd/32.png) [@tiny\_ham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tiny_ham)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2003, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roger-clemens-vs-kerry-wood/179401/38 "2003-06-04T13:07:37Z")
And we won a crapload of games WITHOUT sammy when he was out nursing a hangnail. I’ve always disliked him, and I betcha we win more while he’s suspended ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2003, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roger-clemens-vs-kerry-wood/179401/39 "2003-06-04T14:53:20Z")
Given that Clemens won two Cy Young Awards with Toronto AFTER signing his big contract with them, and given that his first season there was one of the greatest seasons a pitcher has ever had in the history of the game, I see very little reason to believe that he stops trying after he signs a big contract. He was sure as hell trying in 1997-1998. ---
**Author:** ![cmosdes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@cmosdes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmosdes)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2003, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roger-clemens-vs-kerry-wood/179401/40 "2003-06-04T16:29:18Z")
**Neurotik** Upon rereading my post this morning I realize my comment about marketing came across not as humorous but as edgy. I apologize for that. As for the rest, well… another time or place. 🙂 Back to the OP, my only hope is that Clemens continues to get “no decision” for the next 10 starts. Flying 60 people all over the country to watch his next start has got be pretty expensive for the guy. Maybe if he can put this off another few weeks the airlines will finally recover. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roger-clemens-vs-kerry-wood/179401.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roger-clemens-vs-kerry-wood/179401.md?page=3)