# Roger Roger column implausible **URL:** \ **Category:** Cecil's Columns/Staff Reports\ **Created:** [April 21, 2008, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roger-roger-column-implausible/446318 "2008-04-21T22:43:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![rbnn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecc23a/32.png) [@rbnn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rbnn)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2008, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roger-roger-column-implausible/446318/1 "2008-04-21T22:43:14Z")
According to staff member Robin for The Straight Dope on Feb. 27, 2007 at [http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mroger.htm](http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mroger.htm) , "as for the use of ‘roger, roger’ in Phantom Menace, the consensus seems to be that it’s a sly reference to Airplane (1980). No evidence is given for the interpretation that this is a “sly reference to Airplane”. A more plausible explanation for the use of the term “Roger, roger” is that the term is used in radio communications to denote successful reception of signal. For example, during Apollo 12, after launch CapCom Carr conversed with astronaut Pete Conrad. Conrad would sometimes acknowledge the communications by “Roger, roger.” Thus, at T=001:02:12, Carr says “12, Houston. After we get the state vector up, we’ll give you your 66 and your 45.” Conrad replies “Roger-roger.” See the air-to-ground transcription from NASA at [http://history.nasa.gov/ap12fj/02earth\_orbit\_tli.htm](http://history.nasa.gov/ap12fj/02earth_orbit_tli.htm) . The audio for Conrad’s use of the term “roger roger” is here: [http://history.nasa.gov/ap12fj/audio/a12a\_001\_00\_51.mp3](http://history.nasa.gov/ap12fj/audio/a12a_001_00_51.mp3) . It is unlikely that Conrad was parodying the Airplane movie in his use of the term “Roger, roger” for several reasons. First, this conversation occurred near loss of signal and clear communication was essential. Second, Apollo 12 having just been hit by lightning, there was a lot of work to be done testing the systems. Third, Airplane would not be released for eleven years. The Straight Dope’s analysis of “roger roger” does not consider its use by astronauts during critical missions, and its analysis should be rethought to account for this and to account for the implausibility of the “Airplane” theory. ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2008, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roger-roger-column-implausible/446318/2 "2008-04-21T23:37:00Z")
[QUOTE=rbnn] It is unlikely that Conrad was parodying the Airplane movie in his use of the term “Roger, roger” for several reasons. [/QUOTE] Then it’s a good thing the Staff Report in question doesn’t make that particular claim, isn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![Eben](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a8b319/32.png) [@Eben](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eben)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2008, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roger-roger-column-implausible/446318/3 "2008-04-21T23:41:58Z")
[QUOTE=rbnn] According to staff member Robin for The Straight Dope on Feb. 27, 2007 at [http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mroger.htm](http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mroger.htm) , "as for the use of ‘roger, roger’ in Phantom Menace, the consensus seems to be that it’s a sly reference to Airplane (1980). No evidence is given for the interpretation that this is a “sly reference to Airplane”. [/QUOTE] Um, the snippet of script from the movie isn’t evidence? Personaly I’m far more willing to believe that George knows more about old comedy movies than about actual science related things. Stealing a bit of comedy is much more his style than putting in a reference to Apollo 12. -Eben ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2008, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roger-roger-column-implausible/446318/4 "2008-04-22T00:38:30Z")
Moving this from Comments on Cecil’s Columns to Comments on Staff Reports because it’s about a Staff Report–not a column. **Gfactor** General Questions Moderator ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2008, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roger-roger-column-implausible/446318/5 "2008-04-22T00:50:38Z")
[QUOTE=Gfactor] Moving this from Comments on Cecil’s Columns to Comments on Staff Reports… [/QUOTE] Wait for clearance, Clarence. ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2008, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roger-roger-column-implausible/446318/6 "2008-04-22T00:53:34Z")
Joey, did ya ever hang around a gymnasium? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![lawoot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/35a633/32.png) [@lawoot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lawoot)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2008, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roger-roger-column-implausible/446318/7 "2008-04-22T02:04:01Z")
What’s our vector, Victor? ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2008, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roger-roger-column-implausible/446318/8 "2008-04-22T17:09:28Z")
[QUOTE=Q.E.D.] Wait for clearance, Clarence. [/QUOTE] **Gfactor** ’s out there busting his butt every night. Tell your old man to drag Zotti and Bodoni up and down the forums for 48 minites. . ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2008, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roger-roger-column-implausible/446318/9 "2008-04-22T17:13:04Z")
No, the WHITE phone. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2008, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roger-roger-column-implausible/446318/10 "2008-04-22T18:34:17Z")
[QUOTE=Q.E.D.] Then it’s a good thing the Staff Report in question doesn’t make that particular claim, isn’t it? [/QUOTE] The OP is accounting for the possibility that the Staff Report’s claim relies on a presupposition that the _term_ ‘roger roger’ originates in the movie Airplane. -FrL- ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2008, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roger-roger-column-implausible/446318/11 "2008-04-22T18:45:39Z")
I don’t see that claim anywhere in the Report. ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2008, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roger-roger-column-implausible/446318/12 "2008-04-22T19:03:53Z")
Surely you can’t be serious. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2008, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roger-roger-column-implausible/446318/13 "2008-04-22T19:24:21Z")
[QUOTE=Q.E.D.] I don’t see that claim anywhere in the Report. [/QUOTE] What claim? I didn’t say anything about a claim. A claim and a presupposition are two different kinds of things. -FrL- ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2008, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roger-roger-column-implausible/446318/14 "2008-04-22T19:26:00Z")
About what? The Report says nothing at all about Conrad, or even remotely suggests that the term originated with _Airplane_. Q.E.D. is right. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2008, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roger-roger-column-implausible/446318/15 "2008-04-22T19:42:35Z")
Here is how I read the OP: The Staff Report says “roger roger” in _Phantom Menace_ is a reference to _Airplane_. I maintain Lucas put “roger roger” in his movie just because “roger roger” is in fact used by radio communicators. Here’s some evidence that it’s used by radio communicators: This guy Conrad, for example. Now you might be thinking Conrad himself was referring to Airplane. This would justify the notion that there’s _some_ important relationship between the TPM ‘roger roger’ and the Airplane ‘roger roger’. But he wasn’t referring to Airplane. He used the phrase 11 years before Airplane was filmed. -FrL- ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2008, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roger-roger-column-implausible/446318/16 "2008-04-22T19:46:28Z")
[QUOTE=Frylock] What claim? I didn’t say anything about a claim. A claim and a presupposition are two different kinds of things. -FrL- [/QUOTE] Huh? Check out the bolded part. [QUOTE=Frylock] The OP is accounting for the possibility that the Staff Report’s **claim** relies on a presupposition that the term ‘roger roger’ originates in the movie Airplane. [/QUOTE] There is no claim anywhere in the Report that presupposes such a thing. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2008, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roger-roger-column-implausible/446318/17 "2008-04-22T19:55:20Z")
But “roger roger” as used by radio communicators is used on _Earth_. And (per Hollywood, anyway) it’s not usually reiterated. _TPM_ takes place in a galaxy far far away (where Shrek and Fiona live, if I’m not mistaken). I’m voting for a joke. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2008, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roger-roger-column-implausible/446318/18 "2008-04-22T20:04:17Z")
[QUOTE=Contrapuntal] Huh? Check out the bolded part. There is no claim anywhere in the Report that presupposes such a thing. [/QUOTE] In the part you quoted, I mentioned a _claim_ that may or may not rely on a _presupposition_. The _claim_ is that “roger roger” as used in TPM has its historical source in “roger roger” as used in Airplane. The _presupposition_ I think the OP of this thread was ascribing to a hypothetical defender of the report was that Conrad was referring to Airplane. Again. I do not claim the presupposition is in the report. I claim that the OP of this thread thinks maybe someone might want to defend the report by interpreting the report as relying on some such presupposition. -FrL- ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2008, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roger-roger-column-implausible/446318/19 "2008-04-22T20:13:20Z")
[QUOTE=Rick] Surely you can’t be serious. [/QUOTE] I am serious. And don’t call me Shirley. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2008, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roger-roger-column-implausible/446318/20 "2008-04-22T20:14:52Z")
[QUOTE=Frylock] In the part you quoted, I mentioned a _claim_ that may or may not rely on a _presupposition_. The _claim_ is that “roger roger” as used in TPM has its historical source in “roger roger” as used in Airplane. The _presupposition_ I think the OP of this thread was ascribing to a hypothetical defender of the report was that Conrad was referring to Airplane. Again. I do not claim the presupposition is in the report. I claim that the OP of this thread thinks maybe someone might want to defend the report by interpreting the report as relying on some such presupposition. -FrL- [/QUOTE] Your post #10 referred to a “Staff Report’s claim.” Q.E.D said there was no such claim in the Staff Report. And indeed, there isn’t. You replied to him that you “didn’t say anything about a claim” when it is clear that you did. I mean, it’s right there in black and white. You saying something about a claim. Color me confused. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roger-roger-column-implausible/446318.md?page=2)