# Roger Stone gets 40 \[month\] sentence **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [February 20, 2020, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roger-stone-gets-40-month-sentence/848244 "2020-02-20T17:44:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![skdo23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@skdo23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/skdo23)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2020, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roger-stone-gets-40-month-sentence/848244/1 "2020-02-20T17:44:00Z")
> **[Live updates: Roger Stone sentenced](https://www.cnn.com/politics/live-news/roger-stone-sentencing/index.html)** > > Roger Stone has been sentenced to more than 3 years in prison for lying to Congress and threatening a witness. Follow here for the latest. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2020, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roger-stone-gets-40-month-sentence/848244/2 "2020-02-20T17:45:15Z")
Months. Not years. ---
**Author:** ![skdo23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@skdo23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/skdo23)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2020, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roger-stone-gets-40-month-sentence/848244/3 "2020-02-20T17:46:09Z")
:smack::smack::smack::smack::smack: Mods, please fix ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2020, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roger-stone-gets-40-month-sentence/848244/4 "2020-02-20T17:50:49Z")
I was wondering if the judge was trolling Trump/Barr with 40 year sentence. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2020, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roger-stone-gets-40-month-sentence/848244/5 "2020-02-20T17:51:00Z")
I’m sure the pardon is printing as we speak. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2020, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roger-stone-gets-40-month-sentence/848244/6 "2020-02-20T17:53:01Z")
Twitter has a print feature? ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2020, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roger-stone-gets-40-month-sentence/848244/7 "2020-02-20T17:54:12Z")
I wonder how long before it will be before the pardon is issued. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2020, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roger-stone-gets-40-month-sentence/848244/8 "2020-02-20T17:57:49Z")
I’m not sure what to think. Its not as long as the prosecution originally requested, but I would imagine that most prosecutors ask for a sentence on the high end of what they think they can get from the judge. So its not clear to me that she wouldn’t have given the same sentence even without Barr’s interference. Seems reasonable to me, at least it wasn’t just a slap on the wrist. Any more legally educated dopers care to comment as to how often judges follow the prosecutors sentence recommendations? ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2020, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roger-stone-gets-40-month-sentence/848244/9 "2020-02-20T17:59:42Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > I wonder how long before it will be before the pardon is issued. Five. ---
**Author:** ![E-DUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/e-dub/32/403_2.png) [@E-DUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-DUB)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2020, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roger-stone-gets-40-month-sentence/848244/10 "2020-02-20T18:04:14Z")
He’ll be pardoned or he’ll be Epsteined. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2020, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roger-stone-gets-40-month-sentence/848244/11 "2020-02-20T18:15:12Z")
> [@E-DUB](#): > > …or he’ll be Epsteined. That would be a dirty trick. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2020, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roger-stone-gets-40-month-sentence/848244/12 "2020-02-20T18:26:34Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Months. Not years. > [@skdo23](#): > > :smack::smack::smack::smack::smack: > Mods, please fix Fixed. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2020, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roger-stone-gets-40-month-sentence/848244/13 "2020-02-20T18:27:27Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > That would be a dirty trick. I see what you did there. ---
**Author:** ![That\_Don\_Guy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/that_don_guy/32/538_2.png) [@That\_Don\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/That_Don_Guy)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2020, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roger-stone-gets-40-month-sentence/848244/14 "2020-02-20T18:56:06Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > I wonder how long before it will be before the pardon is issued. November 4; not only does it not affect the election, butit has the added advantage of being buried by the news of the election results. ---
**Author:** ![Tigers2B1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc29f/32.png) [@Tigers2B1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tigers2B1)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2020, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roger-stone-gets-40-month-sentence/848244/15 "2020-02-20T19:15:30Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > I wonder how long before it will be before the pardon is issued. Ever the showman I suspect he will pop it at one of his political rallies. ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2020, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roger-stone-gets-40-month-sentence/848244/16 "2020-02-20T20:42:08Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > I wonder how long before it will be before the pardon is issued. > [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > Five. Four. … > [@Buck Godot](#): > > Any more legally educated dopers care to comment as to how often judges follow the prosecutors sentence recommendations? Federal sentencing is based, initially, on a score sheet wherein a person accumulates points based on their conduct. Basically, every offense has a base level, and then you get points added or subtracted based on special characteristics (e.g. You accepted responsibility (usually by entry of a plea, instead of going to trial) = -2 points. You committed your crime while in a position of trust, such as stealing money given to you because you are a financial manager, or you molested somebody because you were their doctor: +2 points). In addition, you get put into a category (I, II, or III) based on your criminal history. The confluence of the history and the points results in a sentencing range, expressed in terms of months. Now, initially, this calculation is done by the probation office, after which either party can object to the calculations, which becomes a point of contention at sentencing. Nevertheless, the express intent of these sentencing score sheets is to emphasize consistency in sentencing among similarly situated people. Additionally, though, and pursuant to an important Supreme Court case ([Booker](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Booker)), the court has ruled that the guidelines are discretionary. Thus, it is not at all uncommon for a defendant to request the court grant a “departure” from sentencing. Sometimes, too, the government will make the request, usually based on the fact that the defendant gave lots of assistance (e.g. they served as an informant). This is all of the activity that usually happens before the sentencing hearing. At the actual hearing, the court will usually go over any objections to the presentence score sheet and let any victims or advocates for the defendant speak, and address any motions for a downward departure. They also usually spend time admonishing the defendant (or possibly praising them if they have unique circumstances, such as an immediate confession or exemplary behavior while in custody) before levying the sentence. As noted, the sentencing guidelines are merely a suggestion, but it is considered a very strong one, based on a review of sentencing generally, and judges usually follow it. The practical effect of any specific request by the prosecutor is usually to either go to the top or bottom of the range, and while that is also not any sort of mandatory recommendation it usually also holds sway, if only because it is frequently based on some issues or evidence from trial (i.e. “Judge, we heard from the victims about how especially heinous and cruel Defendant’s actions were. Given his conduct, we are asking the court to impose the maximum sentence authorized.”) Of course, the defense can attempt the same thing (i.e. “Judge, today we heard from Defendant’s family about how much they depend on him. He has also taken full responsibility for his actions, as evidenced by his decision to plead guilty without a trial. We are asking for a sentence at the bottom of the applicable range”). Ultimately, I think judges generally side with the prosecution, but that is because the prosecutors usually invoke the facts of the case (such as the nature of the crime, the testimony at trial, or the circumstances of Defendant’s situation) as their reasons. Also, at the point of sentencing, the allegations have been ‘proven’, so it’s really the first time in court that the prosecution can say that the Defendant ‘did this’, and there is no rebuttal to be had. The judge, though, has the final say, and the only real problem with the judge’s sentence is if they don’t bother to offer some reasons for why they imposed it. Any reviewing court will conclude that it is a ‘matter of discretion’, although the factors to be considered (as per statute 18 USC 3553) are: (a)Factors To Be Considered in Imposing a Sentence.—The court shall impose a sentence sufficient, but not greater than necessary, to comply with the purposes set forth in paragraph (2) of this subsection. The court, in determining the particular sentence to be imposed, shall consider— (1)the nature and circumstances of the offense and the history and characteristics of the defendant; (2)the need for the sentence imposed— (A)to reflect the seriousness of the offense, to promote respect for the law, and to provide just punishment for the offense; (B)to afford adequate deterrence to criminal conduct; (C)to protect the public from further crimes of the defendant; and (D)to provide the defendant with needed educational or vocational training, medical care, or other correctional treatment in the most effective manner; (3)the kinds of sentences available; (4)the kinds of sentence and the sentencing range established for— (A)the applicable category of offense committed by the applicable category of defendant as set forth in the guidelines— (i)issued by the Sentencing Commission pursuant to section 994(a)(1) of title 28, United States Code, subject to any amendments made to such guidelines by act of Congress (regardless of whether such amendments have yet to be incorporated by the Sentencing Commission into amendments issued under section 994(p) of title 28); and (ii)that, except as provided in section 3742(g), are in effect on the date the defendant is sentenced; or (B)in the case of a violation of probation or supervised release, the applicable guidelines or policy statements issued by the Sentencing Commission pursuant to section 994(a)(3) of title 28, United States Code, taking into account any amendments made to such guidelines or policy statements by act of Congress (regardless of whether such amendments have yet to be incorporated by the Sentencing Commission into amendments issued under section 994(p) of title 28); (5)any pertinent policy statement— (A)issued by the Sentencing Commission pursuant to section 994(a)(2) of title 28, United States Code, subject to any amendments made to such policy statement by act of Congress (regardless of whether such amendments have yet to be incorporated by the Sentencing Commission into amendments issued under section 994(p) of title 28); and (B)that, except as provided in section 3742(g), is in effect on the date the defendant is sentenced. (6)the need to avoid unwarranted sentence disparities among defendants with similar records who have been found guilty of similar conduct; and (7)the need to provide restitution to any victims of the offense. ---
**Author:** ![ShadowFacts](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shadowfacts/32/2934_2.png) [@ShadowFacts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShadowFacts)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2020, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roger-stone-gets-40-month-sentence/848244/17 "2020-02-20T22:14:37Z")
Awesome post, thanks **Moriarty**! ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2020, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roger-stone-gets-40-month-sentence/848244/18 "2020-02-20T23:31:28Z")
> [@Moriarty](#): > > Federal sentencing is based, initially, on a score sheet wherein a person accumulates points based on their conduct. > … Well that pretty much answers the question I asked. Thanks a bunch for the detailed reply. So if I am reading what you wrote correctly, as this analysis applies to the case in hand, the fact that the judge gave 40 months instead of the 7-9 years requested by the prosecution suggests that the revised sentencing request may have influenced the judgement handed down, but it does not conclusively demonstrate that to be the case. ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2020, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roger-stone-gets-40-month-sentence/848244/19 "2020-02-21T00:26:29Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > So if I am reading what you wrote correctly, as this analysis applies to the case in hand, the fact that the judge gave 40 months instead of the 7-9 years requested by the prosecution suggests that the revised sentencing request may have influenced the judgement handed down, but it does not conclusively demonstrate that to be the case. Except for general news watching, I hadn’t looked into the details of Stone’s sentencing. However, Google gives me [this](https://www.nationalreview.com/2020/02/the-roger-stone-sentencing-fiasco/) National Review article, and while I don’t vouch for the source, I do think this is enlightening. > [@](#): > > In Stone’s case, the guidelines worked a severe result. In tampering cases, a guidelines enhancement calls for a drastic increase in the sentence if the defendant threatened the witness with physical injury. This drove Stone’s “offense level” from 21 to 29 on the guidelines grid, so even though he is a first offender (offense history “Category I” in guidelines-speak), his recommended sentence zoomed to 90 to 108 months — instead of 37 to 46 months, as it would have been at offense level 21 (i.e., without the threats)… > > This team of prosecutors filed a sentencing memorandum on Monday, laying out the guidelines and advising Judge Amy Berman Jackson that they called for a prison sentence of about seven to nine years (i.e., the offense-level guidelines range of 90 to 108 months)… > > Late Tuesday, the DOJ filed a revised sentencing memo, which does not recommend a specific sentence but strongly suggests that a term calculated without the eight-point enhancement — i.e., between 37 and 46 months’ imprisonment — would be just. The new memo concedes that the prosecutors’ calculation in the original memo was “arguably” correct, but contends that it would be unreasonable under the circumstances. On that score, the memo relies on (a) Credico’s dismissal of the threat (though it acknowledges that this is not dispositive); (b) the fact that a sentence driven by the guidelines enhancement would be wildly out of proportion with prison terms imposed in cases similar to Stone’s; (c) Stone’s being a first-offender with no organized-crime or gang connections and thus not typical of the offenders the enhancement is meant to cover; and (d) Stone’s advanced age and failing health. As I had said upthread, you start with a baseline score for a conviction (which in this case was ‘witness tampering’), then you can add or detract points based on certain specific characteristics. Apparently, one such ‘aggravator’ for this type of conviction is whether the defendant threatened the witness with physical injury; doing so, even when you are Category I (meaning, no prior criminal history), more than doubles the sentencing range. The original prosecutors wanted to add this enhancement. The subsequent prosecutors changed course and argued that it should not apply. It looks like the judge agreed with this revision (or, at least, shrugged her shoulders and said, “If the government doesn’t care, I don’t”, which a judge recently ruled for me when we asked for an unopposed extension of time for a sentenced defendant to report to prison to start his sentence). ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2020, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roger-stone-gets-40-month-sentence/848244/20 "2020-02-21T00:42:05Z")
For those curious, like me, as to what threats Stone made, there’s [this](https://www.businessinsider.com/roger-stone-allegedly-threatened-to-kidnap-randy-credico-dog-2019-1). > [@](#): > > “You are a rat. A stoolie. You backstab your friends — run your mouth. My lawyers are dying,” Stone wrote to them, according to the indictment. “Rip you to shreds.” > According to the indictment, Stone continued, saying he would “take that dog away from you,” which the indictment notes was “referring to Person 2’s dog.” > “I am so ready,” Stone said. “Let’s get it on. Prepare to die [expletive].” [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roger-stone-gets-40-month-sentence/848244.md?page=2)