# Roger Stone Guilty on All Counts **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [November 15, 2019, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roger-stone-guilty-on-all-counts/843497 "2019-11-15T16:59:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 8\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2019, 6:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roger-stone-guilty-on-all-counts/843497/41 "2019-11-16T06:40:33Z")
> [@MichaelEmouse](#): > > Someone can also explain to me how being pardoned means they’re easier to compel to testify. Maybe I just don’t know that point of law. If you’re pardoned for XYZ act, then you are no longer in jeopardy of being punished for that act. So the Fifth Amendment protection against self-incrimination does not apply. A pardoned person who does not want to be compelled to testify can reject the pardon. But then they’re still guilty of the crime. ---
**Author:** ![RioRico](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f04885/32.png) [@RioRico](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RioRico)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2019, 7:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roger-stone-guilty-on-all-counts/843497/42 "2019-11-16T07:13:34Z")
Why expect a presidential pardon? A reward for silence, for successful tampering and obstruction. Why not expect a pardon? He’s not worth it; the pardoner-in-chief has greater worries. I don’t think this POTUS fears current or former minions that much, especially if they’re careful with document shredding. He’s been most manic about his financial information, which will show who owns him. Minions can testify he’s a crook. Docs will reveal treason. Pardoning Stone, or not, won’t gain much benefit. Might as well toss him under the bus too. ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2019, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roger-stone-guilty-on-all-counts/843497/43 "2019-11-16T13:35:25Z")
Let’s note that Stone is going to jail for lying about his coordination between Trump’s campaign and Russia, via Wikileaks, and then interfering with Mueller’s investigation. Remember that the next time the ridiculous talking point that there was “no collusion, no obstruction” gets dragged out by Trump’s apologizers. ---
**Author:** ![Alpha\_Twit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alpha_twit/32/265_2.png) [@Alpha\_Twit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alpha_Twit)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2019, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roger-stone-guilty-on-all-counts/843497/44 "2019-11-16T13:42:45Z")
> [@Moriarty](#): > > Let’s note that Stone is going to jail for lying about his coordination between Trump’s campaign and Russia, via Wikileaks, and then interfering with Mueller’s investigation. > > Remember that the next time the ridiculous talking point that there was “no collusion, no obstruction” gets dragged out by Trump’s apologizers. The problem with that line of thought is that the alt right don’t see Stone as a criminal. He’s a victim of blind, unreasoning, corrupt hatred from the left of Trump and all that is good and holy about 'Merica. He’s a martyr, his conviction is a manufactured fraud and it does nothing but prove that anyone who isn’t in unquestioning, lockstep agreement with the alt right narrative is a traitor to be attacked. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2019, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roger-stone-guilty-on-all-counts/843497/45 "2019-11-16T14:31:44Z")
> [@Lord\_Feldon](#): > > Why would the pardon change anything on that front? To the extent that these matters gave him a legitimate reason to use his Fifth Amendment rights, didn’t that end today, or at least won’t it in February when he’s sentenced? The idea is, he’d get a general pardon, so he’d be able to be compelled to testify about things he hasn’t been tried for because we didn’t know they happened, or couldn’t prosecute them without his testimony. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2019, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roger-stone-guilty-on-all-counts/843497/46 "2019-11-16T14:33:16Z")
> [@Lord\_Feldon](#): > > Why would the pardon change anything on that front? To the extent that these matters gave him a legitimate reason to use his Fifth Amendment rights, didn’t that end today, or at least won’t it in February when he’s sentenced? He’d have 5th amendment rights until the appeal is over. That could take a few years. ---
**Author:** ![RioRico](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f04885/32.png) [@RioRico](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RioRico)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2019, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roger-stone-guilty-on-all-counts/843497/47 "2019-11-16T20:35:44Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > He’d have 5th amendment rights until the appeal is over. That could take a few years. Failure to testify to a grand jury usually gets one locked up till their term expires. And then another grand jury can be called, with more cell time for the refusenik. Will the Nixon tattoo survive his jail time? ---
**Author:** ![skdo23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@skdo23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/skdo23)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2019, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roger-stone-guilty-on-all-counts/843497/48 "2019-11-17T04:20:50Z")
Roger Stone still might not manage to get off scott free though, although I’m not sure how reliable this source is: [https://politicaltribune.org/it-appears-former-special-counsel-robert-mueller-thwarted-trump-yet-again-made-it-so-potus-cant-pardon-stone/?fbclid=IwAR1p72gtJbiF9LDFOQO6vcAjKLX68btZTUMvIjwyj6w610aI6ssDCmfTS2U](https://politicaltribune.org/it-appears-former-special-counsel-robert-mueller-thwarted-trump-yet-again-made-it-so-potus-cant-pardon-stone/?fbclid=IwAR1p72gtJbiF9LDFOQO6vcAjKLX68btZTUMvIjwyj6w610aI6ssDCmfTS2U) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roger-stone-guilty-on-all-counts/843497.md?page=2)