# Roger Stone says Koch gave Romney $100 million to name Ryan **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 25, 2012, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roger-stone-says-koch-gave-romney-100-million-to-name-ryan/632620 "2012-08-25T17:08:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kolak_of_twilo/32/73_2.png) [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolak_of_Twilo)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2012, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roger-stone-says-koch-gave-romney-100-million-to-name-ryan/632620/41 "2012-08-27T14:00:04Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > However, **Sampiro** has a thicker skin that that, and if let “bullies” drive him away from here, that speaks more to me about his own person weakness. And I say that having stated several times that he is one my favorite posters on this MB. I doubt he’ll really stay away once he cools off. I hope you’re right about **Sampiro**. It’s already three weeks since his last post. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2012, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roger-stone-says-koch-gave-romney-100-million-to-name-ryan/632620/42 "2012-08-27T15:52:06Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > However, **Sampiro** has a thicker skin that that, and if let “bullies” drive him away from here, that speaks more to me about his own person weakness. And I say that having stated several times that he is one my favorite posters on this MB. I doubt he’ll really stay away once he cools off. That sounds a little like blaming the victim to me. It would be nice if we all had thick skins and could shrug off those sorts of insults, but none of us should have to, and it’s not **Sampiro** ’s fault if he can’t. > [@Darth\_Panda](#): > > You mean like this? Yes, good for him. However, if they’re using a similar amount of money to manipulate Romney, particularly in the interest of feathering their own nests, then that’s still pretty damn sleazy. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2012, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roger-stone-says-koch-gave-romney-100-million-to-name-ryan/632620/43 "2012-08-27T16:13:13Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > That sounds a little like blaming the victim to me. It would be nice if we all had thick skins and could shrug off those sorts of insults, but none of us should have to, and it’s not **Sampiro** ’s fault if he can’t. You’d have to shut down this forum, then. That’s what it’s for. And, btw, it was **Sampiro** who got a warning (actually, just a mod note) in that non-Pit forum, for posting this: > [@Sampiro](#): > > … I’ll water that down a bit to something simple enough that maybe billfish can understand it without handpuppets and Fig Newton rewards… > > I honestly think you may very well be the stupidest person on the Straight Dope. Have you ever been diagnosed with a learning disability? And I don’t ask that rhetorically (or with compassion), but because you actually cannot absorb a simple concept. On my holiest oath, I have actually worked with mildly retarded people who are better at understanding and making points in an argument than you are. ---
**Author:** ![Uncle\_Jocko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/uncle_jocko/32/2932_2.png) [@Uncle\_Jocko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uncle_Jocko)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2012, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roger-stone-says-koch-gave-romney-100-million-to-name-ryan/632620/44 "2012-08-27T16:25:32Z")
So, while it’s Martin’s opinions on gays that bring out the (well-deserved) scorn here, he’s getting a free pass on this? > [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > while men like Barack Obama that traffic in **lies and false promises** to sell the American people policies they don’t want and don’t need are held up as paragons of virtue. As opposed to the glorious, shining examples of truth-tellers like Mitt Romney, with his blatant, bald-faced lies about Obama’s positions on Medicare and work-for-welfare? Not even from a Super PAC, mind you, but lies aired straight-out on Romney campaign ads ended by “I’m Mitt Romney, and I approve this message.” The thing about all the corporate money flooding into the campaign process just means those of us in swing states are getting INUNDATED by ads .. nonstop, grating, sometimes accurate/sometimes false, and never-ending. While I don’t know if they will have much, if any, effect on the specific bases, I daresay they might depress the turnout of undecideds … as they’ll be likely to say, “These guys both stink, the hell with 'em!” and stay home on election day. I can’t say that’s a plus for America or for democracy. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2012, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roger-stone-says-koch-gave-romney-100-million-to-name-ryan/632620/45 "2012-08-27T16:53:12Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > That’s almost amusing, coming from the guy who wrote this: Huh? You seem to think you have a point–care to spell it out plainly? ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2012, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roger-stone-says-koch-gave-romney-100-million-to-name-ryan/632620/46 "2012-08-27T16:55:06Z")
> [@Uncle\_Jocko](#): > > The thing about all the corporate money flooding into the campaign process just means those of us in swing states are getting INUNDATED by ads .. nonstop, grating, sometimes accurate/sometimes false, and never-ending. While I don’t know if they will have much, if any, effect on the specific bases, I daresay they might depress the turnout of undecideds … as they’ll be likely to say, “These guys both stink, the hell with 'em!” and stay home on election day. > > I can’t say that’s a plus for America or for democracy. Like conservatives give a damn about democracy. You got at least a few of them right here saying its ok to ignore rights for people or defending the buying of politicians ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2012, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roger-stone-says-koch-gave-romney-100-million-to-name-ryan/632620/47 "2012-08-27T16:57:07Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Do you feel the same way about George Soros and unions giving so much to Democrats and their causes? That they **can?** [Yes, actually.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=653227) ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2012, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roger-stone-says-koch-gave-romney-100-million-to-name-ryan/632620/48 "2012-08-27T16:57:37Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > One thing I find heroic is when someone sacrifices his own interests to see to someone else’s. Even if the Koch’s did create 100,000 jobs, it has been in the service of enriching themselves. There’s nothing noble about it. > > Real heroes don’t line their own pockets. They do some philanthropic work and care very much about making our country a libertarian utopia. Please note that they inherited their money and then made good investment and business decisions with that money. If they want to spend $100M in advertising for their Ayn Rand darling, Paul Rand, then I’m happy that they are enriching the advertising sector. Not enough to stimulate the whole economy, but it is a start. The problem I have with their pipeline is that they demand public lands and money and environmentally sensitive areas to send it over. Why they can’t pay for all the rights of way and building, etc. just strikes me as rank hypocrisy. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2012, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roger-stone-says-koch-gave-romney-100-million-to-name-ryan/632620/49 "2012-08-27T17:12:07Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Huh? You seem to think you have a point–care to spell it out plainly? The point is that you complain about someone putting words into your mouth very shortly after you tried to tell everyone what I think. To put it even more plainly, it is hypocritical for you to use a straw man argument, then complain when someone else uses a straw man argument. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2012, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roger-stone-says-koch-gave-romney-100-million-to-name-ryan/632620/50 "2012-08-27T17:15:26Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > However, **Sampiro** has a thicker skin that that, and if let “bullies” drive him away from here, that speaks more to me about his own person weakness. And I say that having stated several times that he is one my favorite posters on this MB. I doubt he’ll really stay away once he cools off. Are you for real? This is a messageboard. It is for having fun and spending leisure time. It is not some sort of virtual lists where Sampiro or anyone else is honorbound to respond to attacks and diatribes from idiots like martin hyde. There is no shame in leaving a messageboard because assholes have made posting there a stressor. The only shame lies with the dickwads who make it stressful in the first place. And nice use of quotes to imply that martin isn’t really a bully and Sampiro is over-reacting. Asshole. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2012, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roger-stone-says-koch-gave-romney-100-million-to-name-ryan/632620/51 "2012-08-27T17:20:39Z")
> [@gamerunknown](#): > > Personally, I like what Oscar Wilde wrote on [individualism and the demeaning nature of charity](http://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/wilde-oscar/soul-man/index.htm). We’re apparently not allowed to talk about gays in this thread. I assume that includes the dead. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2012, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roger-stone-says-koch-gave-romney-100-million-to-name-ryan/632620/52 "2012-08-27T17:32:34Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Huh? You seem to think you have a point–care to spell it out plainly? Are you admitting that you are a fucking moron? Even a child would know what he meant: You posted a fucking strawman in that quote. That statement was never made, and even you yourself had to admit it later. Coincidentally, if you’d have waited on me to post, you’d have found someone who did agree with your strawman. Yes, the Koch brothers should have done it out of the goodness of their hearts. Even you, in this very thread, give value to how they helped society, not how they helped themselves. Thus they would have been even more valuable if they had actually intentionally tried to make society better. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2012, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roger-stone-says-koch-gave-romney-100-million-to-name-ryan/632620/53 "2012-08-27T18:07:24Z")
> [@Equipoise](#): > > What legacy will the Koch Brothers leave behind? Possibly [curing](http://ki.mit.edu/) [cancer](http://www.jhu.edu/~gazette/2006/04dec06/04koch.html). Or for someone to be encouraged to [pursue the arts](http://www.lincolncenter.org/press_release/StateTheaterNamingNews_FINAL_7-9-08.pdf). ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2012, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roger-stone-says-koch-gave-romney-100-million-to-name-ryan/632620/54 "2012-08-27T19:10:15Z")
I dunno. The world hasn’t forgotten that Nobel invented dynamite. ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2012, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roger-stone-says-koch-gave-romney-100-million-to-name-ryan/632620/55 "2012-08-27T19:24:06Z")
> [@Equipoise](#): > > …drove our [beloved Sampiro away from the Dope](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=15348793&postcount=328). I had to go and look and you are wrong, thankfully. It seems he visited yesterday but hasn’t posted since 8-4. Hopefull he’ll stick around and start posting again. ---
**Author:** ![BigAppleBucky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigapplebucky/32/178_2.png) [@BigAppleBucky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigAppleBucky)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2012, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roger-stone-says-koch-gave-romney-100-million-to-name-ryan/632620/56 "2012-08-27T20:02:51Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > One thing I find heroic is when someone sacrifices his own interests to see to someone else’s. Even if the Koch’s did create 100,000 jobs, it has been in the service of enriching themselves. There’s nothing noble about it. > > Real heroes don’t line their own pockets. I would say there is nothing immoral about providing a popular product through development of a business that provides jobs. At worst it is amoral. The problem with the Kochs is their perversion of science and the political system. A democracy works when accurate information is available to the voters. The Kochs work at suppressing science and stopping dissemination of any facts that might be unfavorable to their short term business interests. I consider those actions immoral. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2012, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roger-stone-says-koch-gave-romney-100-million-to-name-ryan/632620/57 "2012-08-27T20:07:53Z")
The Koch Brothers are the AntiChrist of environmental protections, they would dump cyanide in Walden’s Pond for a dollar. Its nice that they give money for skinny ladies to dance on their tip-toes. No, really, that’s nice. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2012, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roger-stone-says-koch-gave-romney-100-million-to-name-ryan/632620/58 "2012-08-27T20:17:15Z")
They also fund PBS’ NOVA and other science shows. I think their politics are reprehensible, but I don’t see the need to not present the full picture. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2012, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roger-stone-says-koch-gave-romney-100-million-to-name-ryan/632620/59 "2012-08-27T20:25:51Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > Business leaders deserve almost 100% of all credit for why America became the most powerful and wealthiest country in the world. Seriously? The reason the United States isn’t Mexico is just because we have a better class of business leaders? And these business leaders just for some reason happen to have been born in the United States? What do you think could be different about the United States that for some reason we have these heroic business leaders where other countries don’t? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2012, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roger-stone-says-koch-gave-romney-100-million-to-name-ryan/632620/60 "2012-08-27T20:52:31Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > They also fund PBS’ NOVA and other science shows. I think their politics are reprehensible, but I don’t see the need to not present the full picture. About that, I thought it was funny that one of the recent shows made mince meat of the idea that we should not worry about global warming as it is not taking place, as they claim in their corporate web site. As mentioned, the show made the point that we should be doing something. > **[Extreme Ice](https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/video/extreme-ice/)** > > An acclaimed photographer teams up with scientists to document the runaway melting of arctic glaciers. Once again, while it good to be a philanthropist, sometimes the bad can overwhelm the good that they do. > [@](#): > > When infamous industrial billionaire Charles Koch funded a study to review the science of global warming, it’s very likely he didn’t expect the chief scientist, Richard Muller, to conclude that “humans are almost entirely the cause” of an accelerating warming trend. > > So will Charles Koch ignore the study he supported? Greenpeace’s Executive Director Phillip Radford sent a letter to Charles Koch yesterday, asking him if the science he funded is enough to convince him of the urgency of climate change. Here’s the letter in full: > > > [@](#): > > > > As you know, one of your grant recipients – Dr. Richard Muller of University of California Berkeley – recently published an op-ed in the New York Times about his “total turnaround” from climate skepticism based on the results of his latest study. The Charles G. Koch Charitable Foundation granted at least $150,000 to Dr. Muller’s Berkeley Earth Surface Temperature (BEST) study. Dr. Muller’s results are consistent with decades of scientific evidence, fully convincing him that global warming is happening and “humans are almost entirely the cause.” > > > > ``` > > Based on Dr. Muller’s evidence and the views of virtually all climate scientists, I am writing to inquire about the influence of these findings on your previously expressed skepticism about climate change. > > > > Dr. Muller explained in a recent Greenpeace Radio interview that he spoke directly with you about the BEST project and your personal interest in his analysis: > > > > ``` > [@](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > Our country desperately needs to reduce carbon pollution in order to take a lead on the global stage, and you have an opportunity here to stop obstructing such leadership. Please tell us, Mr. Koch: do you now consider anthropogenic global warming to be on a “solid, firm foundation” as Dr. Muller does? Will groups that deny climate science continue to receive support from Koch Industries and its associated foundations? If so, will you urge them to discontinue such unscientific and unproductive interference in policy-making focused on addressing climate change? > > > > ``` > > We look forward to your response and urge you to take this inquiry seriously. Too much is at stake to continue delaying solutions to civilization’s largest challenge. > > > > ``` > > **Meanwhile, Charles and his brother David say they plan to raise and spend nearly $400 million this election season — with most of those millions going toward ads designed to cut down the clean energy industry.** [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roger-stone-says-koch-gave-romney-100-million-to-name-ryan/632620.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roger-stone-says-koch-gave-romney-100-million-to-name-ryan/632620.md?page=4)