# roger thornhill: Be a Man, already **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 21, 2004, 9:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roger-thornhill-be-a-man-already/265296 "2004-09-21T09:11:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![SolGrundy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bbce88/32.png) [@SolGrundy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SolGrundy)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2004, 9:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roger-thornhill-be-a-man-already/265296/1 "2004-09-21T09:11:20Z")
Or: “\*\*spectrum, I think I get it now” I’m talking about [this thread in Great Debates](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=254930&page=1&pp=50). **Polycarp** mentions taking anyone who presumes to misinterpret or re-interpret the words of Christ to the Pit, but then shows restraint and doesn’t do it. I’m not **Polycarp**. All through that thread, we see the same circular, coy, self-serving, sanctimonious crap we got from **bodswood** in his new incarnation as **roger thornhill**. It takes him five fucking posts to even make his point, which is: I know what Jesus thought, and it’s that homosexuality was a sin. It’s time to come out of the closet, people. I’m so fucking tired of people who condemn homosexuals and homosexuality without just coming out and saying it directly. I’m so tired of people who claim that they’re not homophobic or not “anti-gay” but still vote against gay rights or talk about the Gay Agenda. I’m tired of people complaining about how gays are so whiny and vocal and self-centered and making such a big deal about their own sexuality, when the culture is still fucked up enough that otherwise rational people feel that a proper response to a “gay advance” is bashing the fag’s head in. If you’re going to condemn me, **be a man** and come out and condemn me. Don’t pretend like it’s some complex, nuanced issue. I would much rather have someone yelling at me, calling me a faggot and telling me I’m going to Hell, than standing there smiling sweetly while holding a knife behind his back. I’m tired of people who are willing to fight against gay rights but are too cowardly to admit that they’re “anti-gay.” Because, pity them, the Liberal Media and the Gay Agenda have corrupted the country so much that you can’t even persecute homos without being called names anymore! And I’m really tired of being such a gullible sap that I take the time to try and argue with these people to show them that they might be mistaken, and they just ignore everything or try to discredit it. “Of course you would say that. You’re _one of them_ and are desperate to rationalize and defend your lifestyle choice.” And I just reminded myself about the “Gay Agenda” bullshit: You want to know my fucking “agenda,” people? To grow up, get a good job, find the right person, get married, and have a family. That’s _so fucking gay!_ And I’d like to take this opportunity to openly apologize to **SHAKES** for giving him such a hard time in an argument a while back. I still don’t agree with what you said, but I respect you for at least **saying** it, instead of dancing around it. That’s how ignorance gets dispelled, IMO – not by saying bullshit like “well, the SDMB is a bastion of those liberal Queers and Queer-Lovers who are just going to tell me what to think anyway.” A while ago I dated a guy who’s a better man, a more righteous man, than I can ever hope to be. He did volunteer work reading to sick children. He volunteered as a crisis counsellor for gay men who were having difficulty reconciling their sexual orientation with their religion, because one of his best friends was gay and Mormon and ended up committing suicide. I never saw him treat anyone with less than respect. He cherishes his family. He believed in honor and commitment. He spoke out against lies and cheating, and he lived up to that. One time when we were driving, I started going off on a tirade about some anti-same sex marriage website I’d seen linked on here. He just got kind of a sad look on his face and said, “I used to get angry, but remember I’ve been out longer than you have. I don’t think it can ever happen in my lifetime. But I have to believe it’ll happen eventually.” What a fucking travesty. Good, righteous people, denied the recognition of their _love_, by a majority of self-serving hypocrites who sit in judgement and condemn their “neighbors.” All the while denying that they’re doing anything wrong. All the while claiming that _they’re_ the ones who are being threatened. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2004, 10:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roger-thornhill-be-a-man-already/265296/2 "2004-09-21T10:14:32Z")
“Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as you are.” — Jesus (Matthew 23:15) ---
**Author:** ![duffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duffer/32/1026_2.png) [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2004, 10:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roger-thornhill-be-a-man-already/265296/3 "2004-09-21T10:23:11Z")
> [@SolGrundy](#): > > It’s time to come out of the closet, people. I’m so fucking tired of people who condemn homosexuals and homosexuality without just coming out and saying it directly. I’m so tired of people who claim that they’re not homophobic or not “anti-gay” but still vote against gay rights or talk about the Gay Agenda. **I’m tired of people complaining about how gays are so whiny and vocal and self-centered and making such a big deal about their own sexuality** , when the culture is still fucked up enough that otherwise rational people feel that a proper response to a “gay advance” is bashing the fag’s head in. hang on Kettle, I just now I have that Pot here somewhere… **Liberal** , great quote! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2004, 11:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roger-thornhill-be-a-man-already/265296/4 "2004-09-21T11:07:36Z")
[QUOTE] > [@SolGrundy](#): > > Or: " **spectrum, I think I get it now"** > > And I just reminded myself about the “Gay Agenda” bullshit: You want to know my fucking “agenda,” people? To grow up, get a good job, find the right person, get married, and have a family. That’s _so fucking gay!_ Permission to qoute this? Because I think that just about carves the point on the stick. People? Listen up! **SolGrundy,** my guess is we might disagree about some things, but in this you have my full support and commiseration. ---
**Author:** ![calm\_kiwi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9fc348/32.png) [@calm\_kiwi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/calm_kiwi)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2004, 11:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roger-thornhill-be-a-man-already/265296/5 "2004-09-21T11:47:27Z")
> [@duffer](#): > > hang on Kettle, I just now I have that Pot here somewhere… > **Liberal** , great quote! 😃 Hey **Duffer** I think you could be fairly safe it betting that **Sol Grundy** would rather his sexuality wasn’t a big deal…or any kind of deal at all. I’m sure he would rather it was just as big a deal as your marriage was. That is it was important to you and your family and your family were happy for you and wished you all the best for the future. Isn’t that nicer then waiting for others to tell you how wrong it is? ---
**Author:** ![calm\_kiwi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9fc348/32.png) [@calm\_kiwi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/calm_kiwi)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2004, 11:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roger-thornhill-be-a-man-already/265296/6 "2004-09-21T11:49:28Z")
Jeeeeeeeez. I apologise to the grammar sticklers for that. But my sentiment was good. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2004, 12:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roger-thornhill-be-a-man-already/265296/7 "2004-09-21T12:01:41Z")
The world is filled with assholes **Sol** , sad to say. Only thing that keeps me going sometimes is knowing one day they’ll all be dead. ---
**Author:** ![LibrarySpy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f9ae1b/32.png) [@LibrarySpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LibrarySpy)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2004, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roger-thornhill-be-a-man-already/265296/8 "2004-09-21T15:33:17Z")
> [@Sol Grundy](#): > > If you’re going to condemn me, be a man and come out and condemn me. Well, **duffer**? Or are bored cliches the extent of your humanity? ---
**Author:** ![TwistofFate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@TwistofFate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TwistofFate)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2004, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roger-thornhill-be-a-man-already/265296/9 "2004-09-21T15:56:52Z")
the extent of his vocabulary also. ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2004, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roger-thornhill-be-a-man-already/265296/10 "2004-09-21T15:58:35Z")
> [@](#): > > otherwise rational people feel that a proper response to a “gay advance” is bashing the fag’s head in. I wonder truly about ‘otherwise rational’. People who respond with intense violence to a non-violent situation are not ‘rational’ people in my book. I agree with everything you’ve said, but I think painting people who kill gays for looking at them funny or asking them out on a date as ‘normal’ is a little disingenuous. ---
**Author:** ![gum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bbe5ce/32.png) [@gum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gum)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2004, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roger-thornhill-be-a-man-already/265296/11 "2004-09-21T16:27:04Z")
Just: Hang in there, **Sol**. Someday soon loving human beings will be considered just that. No matter what gender. I wish you didn’t have to fight for love and I wish you strenght. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2004, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roger-thornhill-be-a-man-already/265296/12 "2004-09-21T17:22:28Z")
> [@](#): > > When we’re free to love anyone we choose > When this world’s big enough for all different views > When we all can worship from our own kind of pew > Then we shall be free > We shall be free > > We shall be free > Have a little faith > Hold out > 'Cause we shall be free > –Garth Brooks (written for his sister and the woman she loves) Hang in there, 'bro – I’ve seen 55 years of this old planet, and things are slowly, steadily changing, and mostly for the better. When my parents listened to country music 40 years ago, that song would have been unthinkable. Today, it’s been a hit. Or, to quote another song from the same genre that my son and I love: > [@](#): > > What we are and what we ain’t… > What we can and what we can’t… > Doesn’t really matter… God’s peace pervade your soul, friend, and let not the petty hatreds of this day dissuade you from the hope that is rightfully yours. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Mockingbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c68b51/32.png) [@Mockingbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mockingbird)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2004, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roger-thornhill-be-a-man-already/265296/13 "2004-09-21T17:28:42Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as you are.” — Jesus (Matthew 23:15) I’ve never seen a poster with so much to say and so insubstantial content. scylla comes close, but you inch ahead bravely. Congratulations to you for striving to set the bar lower for the ratio of posts to content. I’m sure Wildest Bill salutes you! (Your framed certificate will be in the mail will arrive when roger thornhill and duffer proudly proclaim that they share _the love that dare not speak its name_ but still get in slap fights over the Astroglide.) ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2004, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roger-thornhill-be-a-man-already/265296/14 "2004-09-21T17:29:47Z")
**Lib** , you rock. **duffer** , nice try. Choad. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2004, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roger-thornhill-be-a-man-already/265296/15 "2004-09-21T17:32:01Z")
Huh. Interesting. Here, I thought that **Liberal** , who as far as I know has always been supportive of gay rights, was making a comment about, and backhanded condemnation of, **roger thornhill**. I could be wrong. But I certainly hope not. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2004, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roger-thornhill-be-a-man-already/265296/16 "2004-09-21T17:34:22Z")
And in case I didn’t use enough commas: , ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2004, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roger-thornhill-be-a-man-already/265296/17 "2004-09-21T17:44:19Z")
**Mockingbird** , give it a rest. I’m pretty sure that **Lib** is on your side here. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2004, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roger-thornhill-be-a-man-already/265296/18 "2004-09-21T17:57:51Z")
> [@Lord Ashtar](#): > > **Mockingbird** , give it a rest. I’m pretty sure that **Lib** is on your side here. But part of the point is…HOW CAN YOU TELL? ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2004, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roger-thornhill-be-a-man-already/265296/19 "2004-09-21T17:59:50Z")
Because I’ve paid attention. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2004, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roger-thornhill-be-a-man-already/265296/20 "2004-09-21T18:01:06Z")
:shrug: I could tell from the Bible verse cited. Seems clear to me that **SolGrundy** was not being a" teacher of law and Pharisee" in his OP. OTOH, **roger thornhill** seems to fit that description quite well. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roger-thornhill-be-a-man-already/265296.md?page=2)