# Roger Waters is a tankie **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 7, 2022, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roger-waters-is-a-tankie/969234 "2022-08-07T05:05:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2023, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roger-waters-is-a-tankie/969234/241 "2023-02-27T14:54:36Z")
Ha ha charade you are. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2023, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roger-waters-is-a-tankie/969234/242 "2023-02-27T15:33:37Z")
BDS is not anti-Semitic. ---
**Author:** ![Dissonance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85f322/32.png) [@Dissonance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dissonance)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2023, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roger-waters-is-a-tankie/969234/243 "2023-02-27T17:32:47Z")
I guess it’s a good thing that nobody on the Frankfurt council said it was then. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2023, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roger-waters-is-a-tankie/969234/244 "2023-02-27T17:40:25Z")
yes they did – or at least the article did ---
**Author:** ![Dissonance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85f322/32.png) [@Dissonance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dissonance)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2023, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roger-waters-is-a-tankie/969234/245 "2023-02-27T17:45:06Z")
No, they didn’t, and neither did the article. > The municipality of Frankfurt announced on Friday that it is canceling the upcoming show of former Pink Floyd singer Roger Waters, citing his alleged status as “one of the world’s most well-known antisemites” as the reason. > … > The council also condemned Waters for his support of the [BDS campaign](https://www.jpost.com/bds-threat/article-732556) that calls for boycotting Israel and for the pressure he exerted on other artists not to perform in Israel. Notice the use of the word ‘also’ in ‘also condemned.’ ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2023, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roger-waters-is-a-tankie/969234/246 "2023-02-27T17:54:01Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > BDS is not anti-Semitic. Not seeing the connection with Business Data Services. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2023, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roger-waters-is-a-tankie/969234/247 "2023-02-27T19:00:10Z")
> [@Dissonance](#): > > Notice the use of the word ‘also’ in ‘also condemned.’ I dunno, there seems to be an implication of antisemitism, just by proximity, but you’re right that it wasn’t explicitly said either. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2023, 12:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roger-waters-is-a-tankie/969234/248 "2023-05-25T12:10:43Z")
Tanks for the memories, Roger (he’s been wowing them on a tour in Germany). "According to a journalist with German media outlet _Belltower News_ , the concert began with an announcement from Waters saying: “The show will start in 10 minutes and a court in Frankfurt has ruled that I am not an antisemite.” > **[In Germany, Roger Waters dons SS garb, projects ‘Anne Frank’ on screen to...](https://www.timesofisrael.com/in-germany-roger-waters-dons-ss-garb-projects-anne-franks-name-to-bash-israel/)** > > Former Pink Floyd frontman, known for antisemitic antics, draws comparison between teen killed in Holocaust and death of Palestinian-American journalist Shireen Abu Akleh last year ---
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2023, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roger-waters-is-a-tankie/969234/249 "2023-05-25T15:21:29Z")
OK…there are certainly legitimate reasons to severely criticize Israel’s human rights record. There are no legitimate reasons I can think of to wear an SS uniform while doing so. Also, isn’t wearing Nazi regalia an actual crime in Germany? ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2023, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roger-waters-is-a-tankie/969234/250 "2023-05-25T16:16:47Z")
> [@Thing.Fish](#): > > Also, isn’t wearing Nazi regalia an actual crime in Germany? In this situation, probably not. > **[The selective penalty for swastikas in Germany – DW – 08/14/2018](https://www.dw.com/en/germanys-confusing-rules-on-swastikas-and-nazi-symbols/a-45063547)** > > Illegally displaying Nazi symbols in Germany can be punished by three years in jail. The ban broadly exempts art, but which works are allowed to show swastikas, SS sig runes and such is often more a matter of the medium. > Swastikas and other banned symbols can, however, be displayed in Germany if they are used for “civic education, countering anti-constitutional activities, art and science, research and education, the coverage of historic and current events, or similar purposes,” according to the Criminal Code. As a musician performing on stage, he could probably argue that it was done for “art”. ---
**Author:** ![mbh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@mbh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mbh)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2023, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roger-waters-is-a-tankie/969234/251 "2023-05-25T16:39:23Z")
It’s hard to tell, but I think he is wearing the Marching Hammers symbol from _The Wall_, not an actual swastika. But, otherwise, it sure looks like an SS uniform. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2023, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roger-waters-is-a-tankie/969234/252 "2023-05-25T19:47:50Z")
Well, maybe Roger just adores leather. The video footage from the concert is especially good. > **[Roger Waters Draws Outrage From Israel Over Berlin Concert Outfit](https://www.thedailybeast.com/roger-waters-dresses-in-nazi-ss-uniform-at-berlin-concert)** > > The Pink Floyd founder donned a fascist-mocking outfit from “The Wall” and invoked Anne Frank’s name during his show in Berlin, drawing outrage from the State of Israel. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2023, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roger-waters-is-a-tankie/969234/253 "2023-05-26T21:59:03Z")
> [@mbh](#): > > It’s hard to tell, but I think he is wearing the Marching Hammers symbol from _The Wall_, not an actual swastika. To me, it is not hard to tell: it _is_ the marching hammers (which alludes to the NAZI swastika, in a non-approving sort of way). Perhaps he has a hair up his ass regarding FC West Ham United? ---
**Author:** ![mbh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@mbh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mbh)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2023, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roger-waters-is-a-tankie/969234/254 "2023-05-26T22:06:23Z")
Yeah, he’s not actually wearing a real swastika, and he can point out that leather trenchcoats and jackboots were worn by both Nazis and Communists, so as far as German law is concerned, his backside is covered. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2023, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roger-waters-is-a-tankie/969234/255 "2023-05-27T19:14:00Z")
That character has been nazi-esque since The Wall came out. Anyone who gave a pass to the lyrics that precede “Who let all of this riff raff into the room?” up until now have to sit down and shut up about it. It’s a character. Stop making me defend Roger Waters. ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2023, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roger-waters-is-a-tankie/969234/256 "2023-05-28T05:31:43Z")
> [@Thing.Fish](#): > > There are no legitimate reasons I can think of to wear an SS uniform while doing so. I thought that was his standard costume for portions of _The Wall_ going back decades? Is this not what you expected to see? ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2023, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roger-waters-is-a-tankie/969234/257 "2023-05-28T06:05:40Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > As a musician performing on stage, he could probably argue that it was done for “art”. I would also note he is almost certainly not wearing a swastika with his “uniform” for these performances. Because, again, this regalia has been part of performances of _The Wall_ going back decades, nigh on half a century, with an emblem of crossed hammers being the Pink-verse’s stand-in for the swastika from the act’s inception. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2023, 6:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roger-waters-is-a-tankie/969234/258 "2023-05-28T06:10:54Z")
> [@ASL\_v2.0](#): > > I thought that was his standard costume for portions of _The Wall_ going back decades? I saw Waters on his 2011 tour when he was performing The Wall in its entirety, and it’s definitely a Hammers uniform that he wears during “In the Flesh?” and its reprise. That being said; 1. Wearing it in Germany 2. At a time when fascism and white supremacy are on the rise internationally 3. After publicly coming out in support of a fascist state engaged in an unprovoked war of conquest 4. While belittling Anne Frank and comparing Israel to Nazi Germany is a pretty big boneheaded move. There are legitimate reasons to criticize Israel’s treatment of the Palestinians, but by no means are they anywhere near the moral equivalent of the Nazis. Waters doesn’t have the right to try and satirize fascism while he’s publicly being Putin’s stooge. ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2023, 6:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roger-waters-is-a-tankie/969234/259 "2023-05-28T06:21:36Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > - Wearing it in Germany > - At a time when fascism and white supremacy are on the rise internationally > - After publicly coming out in support of a fascist state engaged in an unprovoked war of conquest > - While belittling Anne Frank and comparing Israel to Nazi Germany The only new element as far as the performance would go would be Anne Frank, and did he “belittle” her, or did he draw a comparison to another victim of an increasingly authoritarian regime? He performed the act in Germany way back in 1990, as the Times of Israel article itself even notes. I can’t speak for his criticism of Israel or whether it crosses into anti-semitism, but for the first couple decades at least _The Wall_ was decidedly anti-fascist, anti-authoritarian, anti-nativism, and anti-white supremacy. However, in conveying such a message, it did so by depicting extremes on stage, in effect showing the main characters dissent into fascism before the wall finally comes crumbling down. Hence the adoption of regalia meant to invoke comparisons to historical fascist movements, including the Nazis. If anything, I think the original performance resonates more so today than ever, with fascism on the rise and Republicans in the US literally building walls as a symbol of the very dogmas _The Wall_ condemned. And you know what? The way things have been driving towards right wing nationalism in Israel lately, he might just have a point in drawing those parallels. Criticism of Israel is not _per se_ antisemitism. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2023, 6:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roger-waters-is-a-tankie/969234/260 "2023-05-28T06:30:46Z")
> [@ASL\_v2.0](#): > > He performed the act in Germany way back in 1990, as the Times of Israel article itself even notes. 1990 was a time when the world could realistically have hope that totalitarianism was on its way out and we all had a bright future ahead of us. The outlook for the near future in 2023 is, to put it lightly, not as optimistic. And even back then his work managed to inspire an actual white supremacist group. > **[Hammerskins](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hammerskins)** > > The Hammerskins (also known as Hammerskin Nation) are a white supremacist group formed in 1988 in Dallas, Texas. Their primary focus is the production and promotion of white power rock music, and many white power bands have been affiliated with the group. The Hammerskins were affiliated with the record label 9% Productions. The Hammerskins host several annual concerts, including Hammerfest, an annual event in both the United States and Europe in honor of deceased Hammerskin Joe Rowan, t The Hamm... [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roger-waters-is-a-tankie/969234.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roger-waters-is-a-tankie/969234.md?page=14)