# Role Models of Eloquence **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 10, 2024, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/role-models-of-eloquence/1005536 "2024-08-10T15:52:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![GailForce](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/dfb087/32.png) [@GailForce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GailForce)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2024, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/role-models-of-eloquence/1005536/1 "2024-08-10T15:52:36Z")
The thread about snobbery, in which I admit to being a private grammar snob (I’ll think disapproving thoughts but will rarely voice them) raises an interesting question to me: who is the best role model of eloquence? That is, who today speaks clearly, in well-formed sentences, using the precise vocabulary he or she wishes to use, very rarely using an inappropriate or awkward preposition, to formulate complicated and often subtle trains of thought? Some models from the past include William F. Buckley and Christopher Hitchens, who, however much you might disagree with them (and I did disagree plenty with both), were a delight to listen to, purely in terms of the sentences they constructed on the fly. One talking head who does an admirable job is Chris Hayes. Almost alone among MSNBC hosts, his sentences hang together with nary a slip or an awkward locution. Their other hosts are given to the same solecisms that most of us commit daily—the struggling for vocabulary, the sentences that trail off into gibberish, the uncolloquial invention of clumsy cliches welded together, the general inarticulateness that needs to be excused (if you agree with them) or derided (if you don’t). Hayes seems able to speak extemporaneously for quite a while without boxing himself into a verbal corner. Among politicians, I’d say that Obama comes to mind, if not for his reliance on “Um” as his all purpose filler word. Who do you consider a model of contemporary eloquence? ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2024, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/role-models-of-eloquence/1005536/2 "2024-08-10T16:36:51Z")
Stephen Fry I think Neil Degrasse Tyson is quite eloquent although I understand how his affectations could put people off. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2024, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/role-models-of-eloquence/1005536/3 "2024-08-10T16:38:42Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > Stephen Fry Damn…beat me to it. I would also add Christopher Hitchens but he is no longer with us. ---
**Author:** ![Briny\_Deep](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/briny_deep/32/17188_2.png) [@Briny\_Deep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Briny_Deep)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2024, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/role-models-of-eloquence/1005536/4 "2024-08-10T17:06:47Z")
Rowan Williams. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2024, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/role-models-of-eloquence/1005536/5 "2024-08-10T17:31:45Z")
> [@GailForce](#): > > That is, who today speaks clearly, in well-formed sentences, using the precise vocabulary he or she wishes to use, very rarely using an inappropriate or awkward preposition, to formulate complicated and often subtle trains of thought? I think generally if someone is talking about eloquence they are talking about flowery intellectual speech. Strictly using the definition above I would say Rep Jeff Jackson. On social media he has a talent for explaining the inner workings of Congress in clear concise simple terms that anyone can understand while not talking down to anyone. ---
**Author:** ![sunacres](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4491bb/32.png) [@sunacres](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sunacres)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2024, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/role-models-of-eloquence/1005536/6 "2024-08-10T18:25:52Z")
I suspected this would happen when I opened the thread: Christopher Hitchens right there in the OP. Sigh. Very sad that he’s gone. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2024, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/role-models-of-eloquence/1005536/7 "2024-08-10T19:25:20Z")
Are we maybe confusing articulate with eloquent here? I always viewed eloquence as essentially being articulate _with style_. I mean, I’d say Jon Stewart is articulate, but not necessarily eloquent. Stephen Fry is eloquent. Winston Churchill was eloquent. ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2024, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/role-models-of-eloquence/1005536/8 "2024-08-10T19:38:07Z")
[PDF list of rhetorical devices.](https://www.ccsoh.us/cms/lib/OH01913306/Centricity/Domain/207/Rhetorical%20Devices%20List.pdf) Bear in mind that they can be used in the service of logical fallacies as well as to puncture them, which Christopher Hitchens wasn’t above doing. Also note that among them all, invective is the stupidest; and of course it’s the only one Donald Trump wields. ---
**Author:** ![Treppenwitz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/treppenwitz/32/3445_2.png) [@Treppenwitz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Treppenwitz)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2024, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/role-models-of-eloquence/1005536/9 "2024-08-10T20:45:12Z")
Half way through the OP’s second para I too was thinking _Stephen Fry_. I can’t think of a better role model. But honorable mentions to: Sara Pascoe, Armando Iannucci and Miles Jupp. Yeah, all four are British, but I promise you, that’s just down to who I’m familiar with - I’m not suggesting anything more than that. Also, all four are comics - I’m thinking that maybe stand-up (in particular) trains your thinking to be nimble? There should be politicians on the list. Obama? j ETA - a younger Billy Connolly? - there’s a thought ---
**Author:** ![P-man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/p-man/32/3606_2.png) [@P-man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/P-man)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2024, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/role-models-of-eloquence/1005536/10 "2024-08-11T02:15:34Z")
The late Nick Bockwinkel. If you asked him what time it was, he’d tell you (eloquently) how to build a watch. He was a pro wrestler, btw. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2024, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/role-models-of-eloquence/1005536/11 "2024-08-11T13:46:34Z")
A somewhat related question: of the 16 names mentioned so far as possibly being eloquent, 15 have been men, if I am understanding correctly. Is this sort of eloquence culturally considered a masculine trait? Is it because talking heads and politicians are disproportionally male? Is something else going on? ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2024, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/role-models-of-eloquence/1005536/12 "2024-08-11T16:21:49Z")
I’m surprised I’m the first to mention Pete Buttigieg. > [@bump](#): > > Stephen Fry is eloquent. Winston Churchill was eloquent. If we’re going back in history, my vote is for James Baldwin. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/WWwOi17WHpE/maxresdefault.jpg "James Baldwin Discusses Racism | The Dick Cavett Show") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWwOi17WHpE) ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2024, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/role-models-of-eloquence/1005536/13 "2024-08-11T17:09:09Z")
> [@Moriarty](#): > > I’m surprised I’m the first to mention Pete Buttigieg. Oh yeah. When my wife and I saw his announcement that he was running for president, we where floored. Obama too. Despite his “Umm’s” he is speaking to the world wide audiance. I’m now making training videos of what I do for work. Not too scripted, but I know the direction that I take. It’s all computer stuff. I try to keep it to no longer than 15 minutes. It’s hard. And you do flub up no matter how prepared you are. At that point you admit it and, at least for myself, get a little bit ‘folksy’ . It’s ok to be human. ---
**Author:** ![Eric1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3bc359/32.png) [@Eric1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eric1)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2024, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/role-models-of-eloquence/1005536/14 "2024-08-11T17:59:47Z")
It’s hard to describe someone as eloquent vs articulate. Example: Rachel Maddow on her TV show. I rarely watch her show but can tell what she’s saying on mute; accurate expression can be eloquence. I’m not sure if she paints herself in corners or messes up too much; if she does, she’s not eloquent. ---
**Author:** ![GailForce](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/dfb087/32.png) [@GailForce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GailForce)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2024, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/role-models-of-eloquence/1005536/15 "2024-08-11T19:00:40Z")
> [@Moriarty](#): > > I’m the first to mention Pete Buttigieg. Pete is a great choice. And I agree on Maddow–I often agree with her, and find out new stuff from her, but she seems focused on speaking to the terminally slow, repeating her talking points several times. Also sometimes she plays up the goofball approach–“I may be stupid, probably am, never was the sharpest tool in the toolkit, but it seems to me, and maybe only to me, but…” ---
**Author:** ![Eric1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3bc359/32.png) [@Eric1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eric1)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2024, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/role-models-of-eloquence/1005536/16 "2024-08-11T22:20:04Z")
I wonder about Volodymyr Zelenskyy as articulate or eloquent. He’s foreign to me but I wonder what viewers in his target audiences think of him. I’ll bet there are a lot of pieces online about him so I should read them. ---
**Author:** ![GailForce](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/dfb087/32.png) [@GailForce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GailForce)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2024, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/role-models-of-eloquence/1005536/17 "2024-08-12T20:13:57Z")
It’s more than just the facility to use words correctly, though that’s a large part of eloquence. Another part is the ability to think, to hold a complicated thought in your head while expressing a preliminary part. I notice this with certain inarticulate speakers who get easily distracted by one word or phrase they employ that triggers a largely irrelevant rant, after which they forget where they were going before their train of thought got interrupted. This is partly intellectual, of course, but it’s mostly the ability to stayed focused and organized.