# Rôle -- whence the circumflex? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 12, 2012, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/role-whence-the-circumflex/609308 "2012-01-12T17:30:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2012, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/role-whence-the-circumflex/609308/21 "2012-01-13T03:57:44Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > As I said, the New Yorker is kind of well-known for using the diaeresis wherever it can. I love the New Yorker and read it cover-to-cover it every month, but it really does have diaerreah. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2012, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/role-whence-the-circumflex/609308/22 "2012-01-13T05:04:24Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > [Here’s one from the New Yorker](http://www.newyorker.com/archive/2004/05/10/040510ta_talk_surowiecki). Wow… that is just precious. ---
**Author:** ![jovan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/0ea827/32.png) [@jovan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jovan)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2012, 6:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/role-whence-the-circumflex/609308/23 "2012-01-13T06:07:44Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > No. Long vowels are denoted by the acute accent (é). I’m surprised someone else didn’t pick this up already, but this is not true. The acute accent in French does not denote a long vowel. It’s only used with the letter _e_ and denotes a close-mid front unrounded vowel (_e_). **matt\_mcl** sort of touched on this, but the _accent circonflexe_ is indeed used (sometimes) to indicate a long vowel. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2012, 6:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/role-whence-the-circumflex/609308/24 "2012-01-13T06:24:06Z")
> [@Derleth](#): > > And here I didn’t use SAMPA because I thought a dumb dictionary respelling scheme would be more universal. > > Haven’t you ever heard of ‘chicken coop’ or being ‘cooped up’ somewhere? That’s what I was trying to refer to. Yes, it is the vowel in ‘moon’ and ‘who’ and ‘boom’ and ‘lose’ or, in SAMPA, /u:/. Yes, I’ve heard the word coop, but I wasn’t sure whether that was what you were referencing. Thank you. (And I think you meant loose) I’ve also bought at The Coop, but either my Scottish coworkers pronounced it co-op or we just never caught on to it being pronounced like chicken ones. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2012, 6:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/role-whence-the-circumflex/609308/25 "2012-01-13T06:44:12Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > Yes, I’ve heard the word coop, but I wasn’t sure whether that was what you were referencing. Thank you. (And I think you meant loose) No, “lose” works, too, for the “oo” sound being described. The difference between “lose” and “loose” is weather the final consonant is voiced or unvoiced. The vowel is the same. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2012, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/role-whence-the-circumflex/609308/26 "2012-01-13T15:52:25Z")
> [@jjimm](#): > > I love the New Yorker and read it cover-to-cover it every month, but it really does have diaerreah. RôFL ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2012, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/role-whence-the-circumflex/609308/27 "2012-01-13T16:44:05Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > The diaeresis was used a fair bit in the late 70s and early 80s, if I recall correctly, by the Reader’s Digest - seemed they were trying to introduce it into English orthography. I think it’s fallen by the way-side. I don’t think the Reader’s Digest even knows what orthography is. Anyway, they got their articles from other sources. As others have said, it’s _The New Yorker_ that is known for championing the diaeresis. > [@Nava](#): > > I’ve also bought at The Coop, but either my Scottish coworkers pronounced it co-op or we just never caught on to it being pronounced like chicken ones. “Coop” and “cooperate” are also common spellings for “co-op” and “co-operate.” The hyphen (or diaeresis) isn’t mandatory. ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2012, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/role-whence-the-circumflex/609308/28 "2012-01-13T16:45:46Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > No, “lose” works, too, for the “oo” sound being described. The difference between “lose” and “loose” is weather the final consonant is voiced or unvoiced. The vowel is the same. Which just shows the bizarrity of English spelling. It would be too simple to spell the words ‘luze’ and ‘luse’, wouldn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2012, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/role-whence-the-circumflex/609308/29 "2012-01-13T17:01:33Z")
> [@Sunspace](#): > > Which just shows the bizarrity of English spelling. It would be too simple to spell the words ‘luze’ and ‘luse’, wouldn’t it? “Luse” just doen’t look right to me, either. I’d pronounce that word as “lu:z,” as well (see: accuse, amuse, confuse, etc. Although “recluse” does work in your favor, but I always want to pronounce that at “ri: klu:z” when I see it.) I far prefer “loose.” ---
**Author:** ![Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/half_man_half_wit/32/21766_2.png) [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Half_Man_Half_Wit)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2012, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/role-whence-the-circumflex/609308/30 "2012-01-13T17:13:19Z")
Thanks for the answers, everyone! > [@pulykamell](#): > > “Luse” just doen’t look right to me, either. I’d pronounce that word as “lu:z,” as well (see: accuse, amuse, confuse, etc. Although “recluse” does work in your favor, but I always want to pronounce that at “ri: klu:z” when I see it.) I far prefer “loose.” Tom Waits seems to by lobbying for ‘[luce](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1J_U3wgNtlQ)’… ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2012, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/role-whence-the-circumflex/609308/31 "2012-01-13T18:05:19Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > “Coop” and “cooperate” are also common spellings for “co-op” and “co-operate.” The hyphen (or diaeresis) isn’t mandatory. My next store will specialize in poultry and profit sharing; it’ll be called “The Chicken Coop”. ---
**Author:** ![Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hypnagogic_jerk/32/4252_2.png) [@Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypnagogic_Jerk)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2012, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/role-whence-the-circumflex/609308/32 "2012-01-13T20:55:11Z")
> [@matt\_mcl](#): > > I’m having trouble finding a minimal pair for ê, but _rêne_ and _renne_ are pronounced differently in Quebec although the pronunciations have merged in France. I’d personally pronounce both the same way, and _reine_ as well. I’m not feeling confident enough in my IPA skills to transcribe what my pronunciation would be, but the vowel is a diphthong. Do you pronounce one of those words with a pure [ɛ] as vowel (i.e. [ʁɛn])? ETA: Now that I think about it, my “natural” pronunciation of _reine_ uses a slightly different vowel than _rêne_ and _renne_. It’s barely audible though, and it’s not a phonemic difference. ---
**Author:** ![Sal\_Ammoniac](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8dc957/32.png) [@Sal\_Ammoniac](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sal_Ammoniac)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2012, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/role-whence-the-circumflex/609308/33 "2012-01-14T03:46:12Z")
> [@Hypnagogic\_Jerk](#): > > I’d personally pronounce both the same way, and _reine_ as well. I’m not feeling confident enough in my IPA skills to transcribe what my pronunciation would be, but the vowel is a diphthong. Do you pronounce one of those words with a pure [ɛ] as vowel (i.e. [ʁɛn])? > > ETA: Now that I think about it, my “natural” pronunciation of _reine_ uses a slightly different vowel than _rêne_ and _renne_. It’s barely audible though, and it’s not a phonemic difference. For what it’s worth, my dictionary (le nouveau petit robert) says those three words are homophones. ---
**Author:** ![stockton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5a626/32.png) [@stockton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stockton)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2012, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/role-whence-the-circumflex/609308/34 "2012-01-14T05:03:47Z")
> [@jjimm](#): > > I love the New Yorker and read it cover-to-cover it every month, but it really does have diaerreah. **jjimm** , it’s not a monthly. The New Yorker is a weëkly magazine. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2012, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/role-whence-the-circumflex/609308/35 "2012-01-17T03:03:07Z")
> [@stockton](#): > > **jjimm** , it’s not a monthly. The New Yorker is a weëkly magazine. :smack: I should really have remembered that as I subscribed to it for a year (from the UK). ---
**Author:** ![Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hypnagogic_jerk/32/4252_2.png) [@Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypnagogic_Jerk)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2012, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/role-whence-the-circumflex/609308/36 "2012-01-17T04:33:26Z")
> [@Sal\_Ammoniac](#): > > For what it’s worth, my dictionary (le nouveau petit robert) says those three words are homophones. Sure, but **matt\_mcl** ’s point was that _in Quebec_ they are pronounced differently. I’m in Quebec and I don’t pronounce them differently. The _Robert_ is likely to reflect European pronunciation. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/role-whence-the-circumflex/609308.md?page=1)