# Rolling Blackouts - Why Not Shut Down Industry **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [February 15, 2021, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rolling-blackouts-why-not-shut-down-industry/932988 "2021-02-15T21:06:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![ishamael69](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b9e5f3/32.png) [@ishamael69](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ishamael69)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2021, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rolling-blackouts-why-not-shut-down-industry/932988/1 "2021-02-15T21:06:20Z")
So we are about to have rolling blackouts across Oklahoma due to the power demand from the winter storm. They are already doing them in Texas. At the same time, there are manufacturing facilities and data centers that could be shut down (perhaps to heat-only) to ease demand on the grid. Wouldn’t that be both more effective and safer than cutting off power needed to heat people’s homes? It seems amazing to me that the power company tells us not to do laundry because of the power consumption, but doesn’t care about the 480 volt milling machines and welders humming away, or the rack upon rack of servers. Am I missing something? ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2021, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rolling-blackouts-why-not-shut-down-industry/932988/2 "2021-02-15T21:13:56Z")
Shutting down data centers without warning can cause big problems. Some servers may not come up, and restarting them is a complicated process because they have to be done in a specific order. Other industrial companies might have similar issues if power is cut off suddenly. ---
**Author:** ![shh1313](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shh1313/32/8020_2.png) [@shh1313](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shh1313)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2021, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rolling-blackouts-why-not-shut-down-industry/932988/3 "2021-02-15T21:59:02Z")
Our wind turbans froze, down 25,000 megawatts according to ERCOT (energy reliability council of Texas) Plus, ERCOT has set they outputs to 66°. Cycling from 45 minutes to 5 hours depending on demand. That’s why the brown outs. ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2021, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rolling-blackouts-why-not-shut-down-industry/932988/4 "2021-02-15T22:20:10Z")
What about not suddenly? It seems crazy that I can’t do laundry and have been asked to unplug my toaster, but retail is open. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2021, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rolling-blackouts-why-not-shut-down-industry/932988/5 "2021-02-15T22:24:38Z")
Some companies may be open not because they’re being fed power by the grid but by their own generators. The store I work at, for example, has its own on-site generator and I’ve been there when the local neighborhood is out but the store still has lights on. Won’t run everything, the main thing is to keep the freezers working so as not to lose stock, enough heat to keep the pipes from freezing, and enough light for safety but they’ll still engage in commerce, too. But like I said, the store has it’s own on-site power source. So maybe in some instances retail isn’t being fed from the grid. But hey, I’m not in Texas so I don’t know for sure. ---
**Author:** ![ishamael69](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b9e5f3/32.png) [@ishamael69](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ishamael69)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2021, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rolling-blackouts-why-not-shut-down-industry/932988/6 "2021-02-15T22:41:16Z")
Yeah, I didn’t mean just shut down the places by pulling the plug. I guess I should have been more clear. Why can the electric company not say that they are requesting (requiring?) all non-essential industry users to cut back? I understand that chemical companies may not be able to shutdown. I understand that restaurants needs to keep refrigerators running. But why does the Google data center _need_ to pull 1.21 gigawatts of power while my furnace goes out? Give them notice and an hour or 4 to reduce their power to 1/2 or even to 1/4 before you start cutting off residences. ---
**Author:** ![slash2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@slash2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slash2k)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2021, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rolling-blackouts-why-not-shut-down-industry/932988/7 "2021-02-15T22:50:17Z")
> [@ishamael69](#): > > But why does the Google data center _need_ to pull 1.21 gigawatts of power while my furnace goes out? Give them notice and an hour or 4 to reduce their power to 1/2 or even to 1/4 before you start cutting off residences. What’s running in that data center? In some places, for example, the local 911 system might be running there (well, almost certainly spread across multiple data centers for fault tolerance, but you still don’t want to be deliberately disabling part of it). Slowing down Facebook is an entirely different kettle of fish from shutting down computer systems that run utilities, hospitals, medical providers, dispatch systems, etc., and the data center operators may not know whose systems are the ones who NEED to stay running and which ones are safe to be allowed to degrade. ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2021, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rolling-blackouts-why-not-shut-down-industry/932988/8 "2021-02-15T22:57:38Z")
Do you have any cites about the blackouts not affect manufacturing and data centers? ---
**Author:** ![iamthewalrus\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/258eb7/32.png) [@iamthewalrus\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamthewalrus_3)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2021, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rolling-blackouts-why-not-shut-down-industry/932988/9 "2021-02-15T23:04:50Z")
> [@MandaJo](#): > > It seems crazy that I can’t do laundry and have been asked to unplug my toaster, but retail is open. Wouldn’t surprise me if they ask retail shops to reduce electricity use too. But just like the request to not do laundry and unplug your toaster, it’s just a request. The power company can’t force retail shops not to open any more than they can force you not to have toast. All they can do ask nicely and if that’s not enough, shut people off when there’s not enough power for the demand. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2021, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rolling-blackouts-why-not-shut-down-industry/932988/10 "2021-02-15T23:24:27Z")
It _might_ be possible to turn off half the lights in a big-box retail store and not substantially reduce the available light. Of course that requires that the original wiring be designed so that, for example, every other fixture is on a different circuit. And what percentage of the electricity used in a big-box store or supermarket is used by lighting anyhow? ---
**Author:** ![shh1313](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shh1313/32/8020_2.png) [@shh1313](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shh1313)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2021, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rolling-blackouts-why-not-shut-down-industry/932988/11 "2021-02-15T23:39:40Z")
Govoner Abbott yesterday authorized 3000 Texas National Guard, some went to de-ice the windmills. The rest were sent to help elderly and at risk. We got our generator ready to go. Plenty of fuel, cast iron stove and 2 cords of seasonsed oak, misquote and pecan. My roommate does trees and last 2 summer’s we prepared. The wood we didn’t need all thebaleros and 711 bought. We donated a cord and a half set aside for those without power. Oil is over $60 a barrel and rising. Because of the cold we’re down in production 100 million barrels a day just in Texas. ---
**Author:** ![mikecurtis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mikecurtis/32/3284_2.png) [@mikecurtis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mikecurtis)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2021, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rolling-blackouts-why-not-shut-down-industry/932988/12 "2021-02-15T23:42:28Z")
> [@iamthewalrus\_3](#): > > when there’s not enough power for the demand. Why is this an acceptable outcome from a public utility? If you can’t meet demand, then you shouldn’t be the provider. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2021, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rolling-blackouts-why-not-shut-down-industry/932988/13 "2021-02-16T00:05:21Z")
How much extra are the customers willing to pay for generators needed only 1 day every year? Every 5 years? Redundancy and spare capacity costs money. Our economic system prizes being maximally efficient most of the time and dumping the costs of occassional shortages on society. Maybe it shouldn’t be that way, but it will take widespread regulation of all aspects of the economy to change it. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2021, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rolling-blackouts-why-not-shut-down-industry/932988/14 "2021-02-16T01:01:24Z")
> [@MandaJo](#): > > What about not suddenly? > > It seems crazy that I can’t do laundry and have been asked to unplug my toaster, but retail is open. Because the blackouts have to be chosen as needed. The power company can’t be sure when they need to shut down a particular area. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2021, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rolling-blackouts-why-not-shut-down-industry/932988/15 "2021-02-16T01:03:03Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > It _might_ be possible to turn off half the lights in a big-box retail store and not substantially reduce the available light. Of course that requires that the original wiring be designed so that, for example, every other fixture is on a different circuit. And what percentage of the electricity used in a big-box store or supermarket is used by lighting anyhow? I’m not entirely sure of how everything is wired up at work, but I do know they have different circuits and a way to prioritize certain things over others. The percentage of energy used for lighting has gone down considerably since they converted to LED’s. The big drain is really the coolers and freezers. ---
**Author:** ![ishamael69](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b9e5f3/32.png) [@ishamael69](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ishamael69)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2021, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rolling-blackouts-why-not-shut-down-industry/932988/16 "2021-02-16T01:13:54Z")
No. The rolling blackouts may indeed impact industry. I do know that my heavy-manufacturing shop was running all day today, and as far as I know we were not asked to reduce power or shut down. It is what made me think of this question: my work is running welders, milling machines, plasma torches, and servers while I’m told to put stuff in ice chests and open my cupboard doors so my pipes don’t freeze when they cut my power. Something seems off. I’m just wondering why they don’t impact industry before residential. Seems like having a heavy manufacturing shop shut down for a day or two would be less impact than shutting down electric-heated senior apartments for several hours. ---
**Author:** ![ishamael69](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b9e5f3/32.png) [@ishamael69](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ishamael69)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2021, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rolling-blackouts-why-not-shut-down-industry/932988/17 "2021-02-16T01:16:23Z")
That would make sense, but they said we would receive an email or robocall before our outage. Seems like they have some time to plan. ---
**Author:** ![mikecurtis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mikecurtis/32/3284_2.png) [@mikecurtis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mikecurtis)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2021, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rolling-blackouts-why-not-shut-down-industry/932988/18 "2021-02-16T02:23:46Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > How much extra are the customers willing to pay for generators needed only 1 day every year? Every 5 years? Except, that’s not how utilities work in the US. The average homeowners bill is not a reflection of the actual cost of the utility. The prices are set by regulations based on a variety of factors. It wouldn’t take “widespread regulation of all aspects of the economy to change it” it would just take a small change in legislation. Changes which are made every few years anyway to keep up with changing costs. And utility companies make their money on investments of infrastructure, so more generators equal more money. An “extra generator or two” to keep up with peak demands would actually increase profitability. Plus it would make changes and repairs less burdensome during off peak times to have “extra” capacity. So there’s nothing but upside to it. ---
**Author:** ![Bootb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e19b73/32.png) [@Bootb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bootb)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2021, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rolling-blackouts-why-not-shut-down-industry/932988/19 "2021-02-16T02:29:32Z")
> [@mikecurtis](#): > > Why is this an acceptable outcome from a public utility? If you can’t meet demand, then you shouldn’t be the provider. The liberals decided that it was an acceptable outcome when they began mandating “clean” energy. Those dirty old fossil fuels are unequaled for their reliability and versatility, not to mention cheaper, but those qualities are irrelevant in the brave new world we find ourselves in. ---
**Author:** ![mikecurtis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mikecurtis/32/3284_2.png) [@mikecurtis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mikecurtis)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2021, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rolling-blackouts-why-not-shut-down-industry/932988/20 "2021-02-16T02:43:27Z")
Nice try. > **[The Current System of Electric Billing No Longer Makes Sense](https://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/the-current-system-of-billing-customers-for-electricity-isnt-working)** > > Here are some suggestions for fixing it. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rolling-blackouts-why-not-shut-down-industry/932988.md?page=2)