# Rolling Stone article, and at what point writers should be fired **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 6, 2015, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rolling-stone-article-and-at-what-point-writers-should-be-fired/716981 "2015-04-06T19:19:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2015, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rolling-stone-article-and-at-what-point-writers-should-be-fired/716981/41 "2015-04-07T17:13:28Z")
Here’s why Erdely should never be hired to write an article again. [Here](http://www.sabrinaerdely.com/docs/ShootingUp.pdf) is an article she wrote a few years back. It’s sort of a fantastical story, with at least a glimmer of a realistic premise, about how middle class moms are getting hooked on heroin. I guess there might be something to it, and if I trust the author, I come away with some knowledge. Now, knowing how challenged this author is about fact checking, I read this article as something that would be laughed at by Lifetime. The story just doesn’t ring true. I might trust this story from another author, but there is no way that I trust this story from this specific author. ---
**Author:** ![davida03801](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b5e925/32.png) [@davida03801](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davida03801)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2015, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rolling-stone-article-and-at-what-point-writers-should-be-fired/716981/42 "2015-04-07T18:56:39Z")
They all are fired to me. Don’t read their stuff and have not for a long time, and that extends well up the media ladder. Anyone with half a brain could have seen this was an agenda piece right from the headline on down. As with all agenda media pieces the facts never get in the way of a story. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2015, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rolling-stone-article-and-at-what-point-writers-should-be-fired/716981/43 "2015-04-07T19:12:31Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > [Yes](http://www.brandonsun.com/world/breaking-news/columbia-journalism-dean-on-review-of-rolling-stone-rape-story-this-was-not-jackies-fault-298814751.html?thx=y) (strictly speaking, the dean of the Columbia Journalism School Steve Coll absolved her of blame). > > _“We do disagree with any suggestion that this was Jackie’s fault,” Coll said at a news conference in New York, calling the article an object lesson in what not to do when reporting, writing and editing about complex issues. > “The editors made judgments about attribution, fact-checking and verification that greatly increased their risks of error but had little or nothing to do with protecting Jackie’s position,” the report found."_ It my just be my interpretation, but the Columbia Journalism report wasn’t investigating the credibility of “Jackie’s” story. They absolved “Jackie” from blame for the actions of the Rolling Stone staff, which is what they were investigating. The Rolling Stone staff screwed up big-time. “Jackie” did not control the actions of the Rolling Stone staff. She only provided a totally horseshit story. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2015, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rolling-stone-article-and-at-what-point-writers-should-be-fired/716981/44 "2015-04-07T20:04:19Z")
There should be mass firings at Rolling Stone. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. The more sensational a story is, the more investigation needed to verify it. Rolling Stone didn’t do any investigation. I mean NONE. Other organizations were able to shred the story _with ease_, by doing what Rolling Stone employees were paid, but failed, to do. Their failure severely damaged the magazine’s reputation. They should all seek other employment in a different field. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2015, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rolling-stone-article-and-at-what-point-writers-should-be-fired/716981/45 "2015-04-07T22:08:52Z")
Jackie is at fault for many things, but not for her story appearing in Rolling Stone. There’s no perfect analogy, but SUPPOSE an obvious lunatic came to the DA’s office claiming he’d seen Abe Vigoda shoot John F. Kennedy. Suppose further that the DA had Abe arrested, put Abe on trial, convicted him, and had him sent to prison. All with no other evidence but that lunatic’s say-so. When saner, more responsible people investigate what went wrong, are they going to blame the loony for getting Abe sent to prison? NO! They’re going to blame the DA, the jury and the judge who took that completely unreliable witness seriously and allowed this farce to proceed. FOr that matter, I don’t blame the kids at the McMartin preschool for telling interrogators wild stories. That’s what little kids do. I blame everyone who took the kids’ crazy stories at face value. Same here- Jackie seems to have a screw loose. It’s not necessarily her fault that she tells crazy stories. But if people repeat her stories as fact, without checking them out, THEY are contemptible. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2015, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rolling-stone-article-and-at-what-point-writers-should-be-fired/716981/46 "2015-04-07T22:19:27Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > While both incidents constitute “lying,” they’re dramatically different. > > Erdley’s lying was part of a systematic problem she’s just one part of. > > Williams’ lie was his own, quite bizarre, deception. > > They’re very difficult to compare. Right, and I dont know if Williams should be fired for his. Other punishments, like volunteer service for Veterans and other things could be acceptable. He didnt make any money off his weird story, afaik. Erdly made shit up, which hurt people, and profited from it. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2015, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rolling-stone-article-and-at-what-point-writers-should-be-fired/716981/47 "2015-04-07T22:36:00Z")
> [@MichaelEmouse](#): > > Excerpt from her apology: > “I want to offer my deepest apologies: to Rolling Stone’s readers, to my Rolling Stone editors and colleagues, to the U.V.A. community, and to any victims of sexual assault who may feel fearful as a result of my article.”\* > Notice any group missing? Is there any likely explanation for this absence besides her still thinking that they’re guilty? In her mind, they may not be guilty, but they’re Guilty. I wonder if she left the fraternity out of the apology due to the pending litigation. ---
**Author:** ![MichaelEmouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/michaelemouse/32/101_2.png) [@MichaelEmouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MichaelEmouse)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2015, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rolling-stone-article-and-at-what-point-writers-should-be-fired/716981/48 "2015-04-07T23:53:13Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > I wonder if she left the fraternity out of the apology due to the pending litigation. Ah, that seems quite likely now that you mention it. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2015, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rolling-stone-article-and-at-what-point-writers-should-be-fired/716981/49 "2015-04-08T03:50:22Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > I wonder if she left the fraternity out of the apology due to the pending litigation. That’s my guess too. As someone mentioned earlier in this thread (I think it was this thread) Rolling Stone is circling the wagons. It may well be that an apology to the frat would mean they’d have to pay more in damages. My one question about this is it seems weird then that Rolling Stone asked Columbia to investigate and that they’d make themselves wide-open to the investigation. There are two different goals at work here. One is to recover their reputation and integrity as a magazine worth listening to and the other is a classic “cover your ass dodge”. It’s weird to think somehow both are in play here at the same time. Maybe there is dissent at the top making for an inconsistent response. No clue really. Just guessing. ---
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2015, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rolling-stone-article-and-at-what-point-writers-should-be-fired/716981/50 "2015-04-08T16:24:34Z")
It’s too bad that the threat of a law-suit could prevent RS from doing what is “right”, i.e. firing Erdley and potentially the editor. ---
**Author:** ![Thing\_Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@Thing\_Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing_Fish)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2015, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rolling-stone-article-and-at-what-point-writers-should-be-fired/716981/51 "2015-04-08T19:41:24Z")
If I ran RS I would fire everyone tangentially responsible for this clusterfuck: writer, fact-checkers, editors, everyone who should have done their job and failed to. Williams’ offense is much less serious, but I would fire him, too, because who is ever going to take him seriously again? It’s not like he would be hard to replace. ---
**Author:** ![LonghornDave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@LonghornDave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonghornDave)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2015, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rolling-stone-article-and-at-what-point-writers-should-be-fired/716981/52 "2015-04-08T20:49:13Z")
As discussed in [this post](http://www.richardbradley.net/shotsinthedark/2015/04/07/in-the-end-its-all-about-rape-culture-or-the-lack-thereof/), the story’s other victim (besides the fraternity) is the University of Virginia. She completely mischaracterizes their response to rape allegations. It is baffling that she has not been fired. [QUOTE=Richard Bradley] The one true thing about Jackie’s story…is that it disproves Sabrina Rubin Erdely’s story. Erdely used Jackie to argue that UVa is indifferent to allegations of sexual assault. But as we know now, the university took Jackie’s story very seriously. Jackie spoke with a dean who subsequently checked up on her multiple times; was offered counseling; was offered the opportunity of pursuing the matter through university channels or through the police; and was recommended to a rape survivor group. Then, she was taken seriously when she claimed that she’d been hit in the head with a bottle, although there was ample reason to suggest that this incident was fabricated. Does this sound like official indifference to you? Reading between the lines, it’s hard not to to think that the officials at UVa who heard Jackie’s story didn’t believe it—and yet they took it seriously, handled it professionally, and did what they could given that their complainant refused to file a complaint. Yet they are maligned by Erdely as indifferent, uncaring. [/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Richard Bradley] Allen Groves wrong a long and detailed letter in which he defends himself against Erdely’s portrayal of him as glib and dismissive about the fact that UVa was being investigated by the Department of Education for Title IX violations. You should read the letter; [it’s fascinating](https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7UAuEqoequKWEMyV1JlUFRqdjA/view). But the most telling part is when he recommends interested parties to watch a video of the meeting that Erdely describes in a way that really does make Groves sound like an ass. [/QUOTE] ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2015, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rolling-stone-article-and-at-what-point-writers-should-be-fired/716981/53 "2015-04-12T20:43:23Z")
> [@LonghornDave](#): > > As discussed in [this post](http://www.richardbradley.net/shotsinthedark/2015/04/07/in-the-end-its-all-about-rape-culture-or-the-lack-thereof/), the story’s other victim (besides the fraternity) is the University of Virginia. She completely mischaracterizes their response to rape allegations. It is baffling that she has not been fired. Being a government institution, I don’t think they can sue for libel. ---
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2015, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rolling-stone-article-and-at-what-point-writers-should-be-fired/716981/54 "2015-04-14T02:34:05Z")
> [@LonghornDave](#): > > … the University of Virginia. She completely mischaracterizes their response to rape allegations. That’s putting it mildly. To support her story, she fabricated quotes, attributing to them things they did not say - and would never have said. A (so-called) journalist that lies in this fashion should indeed be fired. ---
**Author:** ![outlierrn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/outlierrn/32/3005_2.png) [@outlierrn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/outlierrn)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2015, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rolling-stone-article-and-at-what-point-writers-should-be-fired/716981/55 "2015-04-14T02:55:58Z")
According to some, she crafted emails of the ‘have you stopped beating your wife’ variety, then claimed they were stonewalling her by not responding. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2015, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rolling-stone-article-and-at-what-point-writers-should-be-fired/716981/56 "2015-04-16T15:34:21Z")
More by NBC: [NBC News Alters Account of Correspondent’s Kidnapping in Syria](http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/16/business/media/nbc-news-alters-account-of-correspondents-kidnapping-in-syria.html?referrer=&_r=1). In brief, the initial story was that forces loyal to Assad had kidnapped the journalists (this aligned with US foreign policy at the time), when in reality it was apparently forces linked to the rebels. Key portion: > [@NY Times](#): > > NBC executives were informed of Mr. Ajouj and Mr. Qassab’s possible involvement during and after Mr. Engels’s captivity, according to current and former NBC employees and others who helped search for Mr. Engel, including political activists and security professionals. Still, the network moved quickly to put Mr. Engel on the air with an account blaming Shiite captors and did not present the other possible version of events. > > An NBC News spokesman said the network would have no comment beyond the statement posted on its site. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2016, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rolling-stone-article-and-at-what-point-writers-should-be-fired/716981/57 "2016-11-08T02:08:31Z")
Updating this thread: > [@](#): > > A federal jury has awarded $3 million in damages to a former University of Virginia associate dean after finding that a Rolling Stone magazine article sullied her reputation by alleging that she was indifferent to allegations of a gang rape on campus… > The jury awarded Eramo $2 million from Erdely and $1 million from Rolling Stone, less than half of the original $7.5 million that Eramo sought when she filed her lawsuit in May 2015. But in judging the seriousness of Eramo’s false portrayal in the magazine, jurors still found considerable fault in the reporting and publishing of the story, deciding after more than two weeks of testimony and argument that Rolling Stone acted with “actual malice.” [https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/jury-to-deliberate-damages-to-u-va-dean-in-rolling-stone-defamation-lawsuit/2016/11/07/e2aa2eb0-a506-11e6-ba59-a7d93165c6d4\_story.html](https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/jury-to-deliberate-damages-to-u-va-dean-in-rolling-stone-defamation-lawsuit/2016/11/07/e2aa2eb0-a506-11e6-ba59-a7d93165c6d4_story.html) ---
**Author:** ![outlierrn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/outlierrn/32/3005_2.png) [@outlierrn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/outlierrn)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2016, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rolling-stone-article-and-at-what-point-writers-should-be-fired/716981/58 "2016-11-08T05:26:04Z")
I, for one, would like to see a rider on that so some of it is used to investigate some of Erdely’s other articles. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2016, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rolling-stone-article-and-at-what-point-writers-should-be-fired/716981/59 "2016-11-08T14:55:40Z")
Apparently, based on Erdely’s subpoenaed notes, she had written up the basic story-line involving the heartless administration discouraging the victim from reporting the crime before she came across this specific story. Essentially she decided what the story was going to be about before she started, and then looked around for something that could be fit into that narrative. I believe a lot of stories get written with this approach. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2016, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rolling-stone-article-and-at-what-point-writers-should-be-fired/716981/60 "2016-11-08T15:41:16Z")
> [@outlierrn](#): > > I, for one, would like to see a rider on that so some of it is used to investigate some of Erdely’s other articles. I linked one up thread, but if you look at her body of work, it’s pretty damn clear that this wasn’t her first made up story. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rolling-stone-article-and-at-what-point-writers-should-be-fired/716981.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rolling-stone-article-and-at-what-point-writers-should-be-fired/716981.md?page=4)