# Rolling Stones Brown Sugar **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 1, 2019, 7:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rolling-stones-brown-sugar/844230 "2019-12-01T07:29:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Mike\_Mabes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mike_mabes/32/1782_2.png) [@Mike\_Mabes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mike_Mabes)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2019, 7:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rolling-stones-brown-sugar/844230/1 "2019-12-01T07:29:03Z")
I fucking love the Stones, But the more I think about these lyrics, fuck me Gold Coast slave ship bound for cotton fields Sold in the market down in New Orleans Scarred old slaver knows he’s doin’ all right Hear him whip the women just around midnight Brown Sugar, how come you taste so good Brown Sugar, just like a young girl should Drums beatin’ cold, English blood runs hot Lady of the house wonderin’ when it’s gonna stop House boy knows that he’s doin’ all right You should have heard him just around midnight Brown Sugar, how come you taste so good Brown Sugar, just like a young girl should Please tell me this is not a justification of masters fucking slaves. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2019, 7:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rolling-stones-brown-sugar/844230/2 "2019-12-01T07:36:27Z")
> [@Mike\_Mabes](#): > > Please tell me this is not a justification of masters fucking slaves. Well… you’ve got a lovely home. ---
**Author:** ![Horatio\_Hellpop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Horatio\_Hellpop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatio_Hellpop)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2019, 7:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rolling-stones-brown-sugar/844230/3 "2019-12-01T07:58:18Z")
Not a justification so much as an acknowledgement. ---
**Author:** ![NDP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ndp/32/55_2.png) [@NDP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NDP)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2019, 8:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rolling-stones-brown-sugar/844230/4 "2019-12-01T08:30:47Z")
From the perspective of 2019, the song is the ultimate troll job. Mick and Keith went out of their way to write a song that would offend every possible sensibility in 1971 but still manage to avoid dropping any of the “seven dirty words.” (That, by the way, could not be said about earlier drafts of the song.) From there, they added one of the best openings in rock history, one of Keith’s killer guitar riffs, and a blasting sax solo by Bobby Keyes. And it all paid off: the song shot to #1. ---
**Author:** ![Banksiaman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banksiaman/32/3334_2.png) [@Banksiaman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banksiaman)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2019, 9:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rolling-stones-brown-sugar/844230/5 "2019-12-01T09:04:44Z")
I happened to be listening to a radio documentary on the Stones yesterday. They played _Brown Sugar_, talked a bit about their desire to write something confronting about American slavery, and then the narrator said that Jagger acknowledged that it was a song he’d not have written now (whenever ‘now’ was when he said it). No cite beyond this second- (?third-) hand tidbit. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2019, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rolling-stones-brown-sugar/844230/6 "2019-12-01T13:46:41Z")
Yes, it is a fucked up song. But I still love me some Rolling Stones. ---
**Author:** ![minlokwat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/minlokwat/32/2844_2.png) [@minlokwat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minlokwat)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2019, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rolling-stones-brown-sugar/844230/7 "2019-12-01T14:06:20Z")
Lyrically you can get away with a lot when you belt out the lyrics in a garbled, British accent. I was having dinner at a Mod Pizza (pick-your-own topping style pizzeria) when the song _Let It Bleed_ came on. That definitely is a NSFW set of lyrics -not that anyone cared or could decipher the lyrics. [link](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4EaYdwLDCew) Also I challenge you to find someone who has never heard _Tumbling Dice_, have them sit down with pencil and paper and write down a single line from the song. Let us know how that goes. [link](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6U8JlcB_BzA) ---
**Author:** ![Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/prof.pepperwinkle/32/13627_2.png) [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Prof.Pepperwinkle)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2019, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rolling-stones-brown-sugar/844230/8 "2019-12-01T14:32:01Z")
Link to VCR article: “Revisiting the Rolling Stones’ Controversial Brown Sugar” > **[Revisiting the Rolling Stones' Controversial 'Brown Sugar'](https://ultimateclassicrock.com/rolling-stones-release-brown-sugar/)** > > The Rolling Stones released 'Brown Sugar' in the U.K. on April 16, 1971. “I wrote that song in Australia in the middle of a field,” Jagger told Rolling Stone in 1995. > [@](#): > > "They were really odd circumstances. I was doing this movie, Ned Kelly, and my hand had got really damaged in this action sequence. So stupid. I was trying to rehabilitate my hand and had this new kind of electric guitar, and I was playing in the middle of the outback and wrote this tune. > [@](#): > > The identity of the woman who inspired the song has been debated for years. Singer and novelist Marsha Hunt, mother of Jagger’s first child Karis, claims in her autobiography Real Life that she is the inspiration for “Brown Sugar.” But backing singer Claudia Lennear believes the song is based on her. “Around the time ‘Brown Sugar’ became a hit for the Rolling Stones, Mick Jagger and I were always seen together in restaurants and nightclubs in Los Angeles,” Lennear told the Express. "That’s why people thought the song was about me, and Mick later confirmed that it was. " > [@](#): > > Jagger admitted in 1995 that his lyrics may have gone a bit far. “God knows what I’m on about on that song. It’s such a mishmash. All the nasty subjects in one go. […] I never would write that song now. I would probably censor myself. I’d think, ‘Oh God, I can’t. I’ve got to stop. I can’t just write raw like that.’” ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2019, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rolling-stones-brown-sugar/844230/9 "2019-12-01T15:48:15Z")
> [@minlokwat](#): > > Lyrically you can get away with a lot when you belt out the lyrics in a garbled, British accent.[URL=“[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6U8JlcB\_BzA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6U8JlcB_BzA)”] Yeah, I’ve heard that song many times, but this thread’s OP is the first time I’ve known what most of the lyrics are. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2019, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rolling-stones-brown-sugar/844230/10 "2019-12-01T15:59:45Z")
Remember that the Stones of that era were noted for gritty lyrics. _Sympathy for the Devil_, _Gimme Shelter_ (with a jolly chorus of “Rape! Murder!”), and _Stray Cat Blues_ (about sex with a 15-year-old groupie) might all be questionable (to say the least) today. ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2019, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rolling-stones-brown-sugar/844230/11 "2019-12-01T16:10:09Z")
To focus for a moment on the misogyny rather than the racism: Yes, the casual misogyny Mick displays in a scene in Gimme Shelter (1970) is jarring to me, since the rest of the film feels so contemporary (hard to believe Altamont was 50 years ago this week). Not picking on Mick — it was common then. Indeed, it’s the one thing that makes the TV series West Wing (c. 2000-2005) feel out of place today — the misogynistic comments and attitudes. It’s an interesting change over time — the biggest steps bring during 1970s “women’s lib” and 2017-19 “metoo,” but with gradual yet steady progress in between these periods as well. Still a ways to go yet, though. It’s what makes a lot of Frank Zappa’s music less enjoyable than it should be, too. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2019, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rolling-stones-brown-sugar/844230/12 "2019-12-01T18:11:23Z")
Mick Jagger wrote the riff for Brown Sugar. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2019, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rolling-stones-brown-sugar/844230/13 "2019-12-01T18:33:19Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > Yeah, I’ve heard that song many times, but this thread’s OP is the first time I’ve known what most of the lyrics are. Ditto. Color me shocked. Even back then, that was pretty far over the line. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2019, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rolling-stones-brown-sugar/844230/14 "2019-12-01T18:41:52Z")
> [@JKellyMap](#): > > To focus for a moment on the misogyny rather than the racism: Yes, the casual misogyny Mick displays in a scene in Gimme Shelter (1970) is jarring to me, since the rest of the film feels so contemporary (hard to believe Altamont was 50 years ago this week). > Not picking on Mick — it was common then. > Indeed, it’s the one thing that makes the TV series West Wing (c. 2000-2005) feel out of place today — the misogynistic comments and attitudes. It’s an interesting change over time — the biggest steps bring during 1970s “women’s lib” and 2017-19 “metoo,” but with gradual yet steady progress in between these periods as well. > Still a ways to go yet, though. > > It’s what makes a lot of Frank Zappa’s music less enjoyable than it should be, too. I feel the same about Zappa, among several others. Brilliant music tarnished by crap lyrics. Instrumentals like “Peaches en Regalia” shine on undimmed, though. This recalls the [Misogynistic Rock Lyrics](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=305762) thread. ---
**Author:** ![Personal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/b9bd4f/32.png) [@Personal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Personal)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2019, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rolling-stones-brown-sugar/844230/15 "2019-12-01T19:53:31Z")
> [@Johanna](#): > > I feel the same about Zappa, among several others. Brilliant music tarnished by crap lyrics. Instrumentals like “Peaches en Regalia” shine on undimmed, though. > > This recalls the [Misogynistic Rock Lyrics](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=305762) thread. I’m guessing that thread would be a lot longer 15 years later. ---
**Author:** ![EinsteinsHund](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/einsteinshund/32/8400_2.png) [@EinsteinsHund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EinsteinsHund)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2019, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rolling-stones-brown-sugar/844230/16 "2019-12-01T19:54:32Z")
> [@JKellyMap](#): > > To focus for a moment on the misogyny rather than the racism: Yes, the casual misogyny Mick displays in a scene in Gimme Shelter (1970) is jarring to me, since the rest of the film feels so contemporary (hard to believe Altamont was 50 years ago this week). > Not picking on Mick — it was common then. > Indeed, it’s the one thing that makes the TV series West Wing (c. 2000-2005) feel out of place today — the misogynistic comments and attitudes. It’s an interesting change over time — the biggest steps bring during 1970s “women’s lib” and 2017-19 “metoo,” but with gradual yet steady progress in between these periods as well. > Still a ways to go yet, though. > > It’s what makes a lot of Frank Zappa’s music less enjoyable than it should be, too. The Stones already had a “proud” tradition of misogynistic songs long before “Brown Sugar” of course ([Out Of Time](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXP1MSFwMnc), [Yesterday’s Paper](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3dKR08VTg1E), [Under My Thumb](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aGRnokznTF0)). That was the continuation of misogyny in Blues lyrics. Robert Johnson’s line “[I’m going to beat my woman, until I’m satisfied](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YYsnRc09csQ)” would have been even too harsh for the Stones in their time, I think. (though some of Jagger’s lyrics were not much better) ---
**Author:** ![Mike\_Mabes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mike_mabes/32/1782_2.png) [@Mike\_Mabes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mike_Mabes)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2019, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rolling-stones-brown-sugar/844230/17 "2019-12-01T20:46:38Z")
> [@minlokwat](#): > > Lyrically you can get away with a lot when you belt out the lyrics in a garbled, British accent. > > I was having dinner at a Mod Pizza (pick-your-own topping style pizzeria) when the song _Let It Bleed_ came on. That definitely is a NSFW set of lyrics -not that anyone cared or could decipher the lyrics. > > [link](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4EaYdwLDCew) > > Also I challenge you to find someone who has never heard _Tumbling Dice_, have them sit down with pencil and paper and write down a single line from the song. Let us know how that goes. > > [link](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6U8JlcB_BzA) I know them. Women think I’m tasty, but they’re always tryin’ to waste me Make me burn the candle right down But baby, don’t need no jewels in my crown Honey, got no money I’m all sixes and sevens and nines Say now baby, I’m the rank outsider You can be my partner in crime Etc. In the Top Ten of Stones songs. ---
**Author:** ![Treppenwitz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/treppenwitz/32/3445_2.png) [@Treppenwitz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Treppenwitz)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2019, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rolling-stones-brown-sugar/844230/18 "2019-12-01T20:55:39Z")
> [@EinsteinsHund](#): > > The Stones already had a “proud” tradition of misogynistic songs long before “Brown Sugar” of course ([Out Of Time](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXP1MSFwMnc), [Yesterday’s Paper](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3dKR08VTg1E), [Under My Thumb](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aGRnokznTF0)). That was the continuation of misogyny in Blues lyrics. Robert Johnson’s line “[**I’m going to beat my woman, until I’m satisfied**](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YYsnRc09csQ)” would have been even too harsh for the Stones in their time, I think. (though some of Jagger’s lyrics were not much better) [My bold] Following your link, **EH** , Johnson actually sings: _I’m going to beat my woman, until I get satisfied_ - which may be even worse. j ---
**Author:** ![EinsteinsHund](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/einsteinshund/32/8400_2.png) [@EinsteinsHund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EinsteinsHund)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2019, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rolling-stones-brown-sugar/844230/19 "2019-12-01T21:12:19Z")
> [@Treppenwitz](#): > > [My bold] > > Following your link, **EH** , Johnson actually sings: > > _I’m going to beat my woman, until I get satisfied_ > > - which may be even worse. > > j Ouch, yes, that’s worse. I misremembered. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2019, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rolling-stones-brown-sugar/844230/20 "2019-12-02T04:44:26Z")
> [@Personal](#): > > I’m guessing that thread would be a lot longer 15 years later. There’s more awareness today. It goes to show how old that thread is that people were denying the existence of obvious misogyny that’s right in front of their noses. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rolling-stones-brown-sugar/844230.md?page=2)