Roma/Romani/Romania - origin of names?

Factual Questions
#21

jobey: I do not understand how you are using the genetic evidence to make your argument.

First off, language is cultural, not genetic.

Second, given the kind of time depth we are talking about, as well as the incredibly wide range of the Roma people, I don’t know how you can make definitive arguments based on genetics. You can point out a correlation that connects people X[sub]1[/sub] to people X[sub]2[/sub], but I don’t see how you can use that evidence to rule out a relationship to people X[sub]3[/sub] and X[sub]4[/sub]. In other words, you may well be correct about a genetic relationship between the Roma and the Jatts, but how does that rule out a connection to the Domba?

To add my own source, Angus Frazer’s 1992 The Gypsies states that linguistic evidence clearly shows that the Roma languages are Indic, but that there was no consensus on which sub-family (other than not southern), and he is a staunch proponent of Roma = Sanskrit domba. In other words, the name “Roma” is clearly derived from domba, but whether the entire ethnic population is so derived is a more difficult question.

#22

AFAICT, there are no “misconceptions” in the current dialogue in this thread except the ones that you have been fostering about incorrectly derived Sanskrit words.

Apart from that, the linguistic and genetic research that you are citing (along with related articles like this one by Hancock) simply claims that current evidence suggests a mixed ethnic and caste origin, primarily based in northern and western India, for Romani peoples. And AFAICT, nobody here is disputing that.

#23

Hello Sr. Drake,

Thank you for your interest and responding to this thread, in which we are discussing not only the origin of the word Rom, also the people of this name.

The following is a quote from a review by Wallia of Dr Rishi’s research, which throws in a Punjabi word for the Rom name, as well as ones I have mentioned before. ( In Romany
rom means “men” or “husband”, and have heard it as a “rh” sound not a “d.”)

“Fonseca errs in stating that the Gypsy designation for themselves as Roma is derived from Dom, one of the outcaste tribes in India…Roma is a variation of “ramante,” a Punjabi word meaning moving, wandering. This etymology is cogently discussed in W.R. Rishi’s book “ROMA: The Panjabi Emigrants in Europe, second edition” published in 1996 by Punjabi University, Patiala, Punjab, India.” This is Wallia’s review of Rishi’s book.

The 1992 study I mentioned did in fact rule out Domba caste, but that was only one study. More studies are needed, to find the origins of Proto-Roma. Thank you for your book reference, I will review it later to see what evidence it cites, if not the same old sources.
Didn’t he write origin of the Picts too, in that series?

If someone would like to provide a molecular genetics article on Domba = Rom , I would be happy to read and review it but as such I am not personally aware of any. For the time being
I have provided to this discussion genetic evidence pointing to Jatt and Punjab. With advances in modern medicine and studies involving differing sensitivities to pharmaceuticals and screening of genetically-linked illnesses, this sort of thing is highly relevant. As in you wouldn’t want to take Group X’s medicine when you were in Group Y! :slight_smile: Molecular genetics is highly relevant to the studies of human origins. Who knows what we will find in the future?

To kimstu:

I did in fact mention the Kaladeiva (sp.) article that Hancock quoted in my first article—>

“A multilocus analysis of genetic data by Kalaydjieva Crahell, Gresham, pointed to NW India Rajput and Punjab for a wide number of Pan-European Rom populations.”

The hocus-pocus sites I were referring to were sites that claim romanian only origin as well as ludicrous stuff involving mythological b.s and lousy interpretations of the Hebrew bible!

Have a nice day!