# Roman army and its absorption of soldiers from different cultural/ethnic groups **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 30, 2013, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roman-army-and-its-absorption-of-soldiers-from-different-cultural-ethnic-groups/664924 "2013-07-30T17:30:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![davidmich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e56c9b/32.png) [@davidmich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidmich)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2013, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roman-army-and-its-absorption-of-soldiers-from-different-cultural-ethnic-groups/664924/1 "2013-07-30T17:30:17Z")
Hi My question involves the absorption of soldiers of different cultural/ethnic groups to fight with the Roman imperial army. Was there a lot of internal rebellion within the army as a result? What was the incentive to serve an army that had conquered them? How did the Romans pull it off? I look forward to your replies davidmich ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2013, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roman-army-and-its-absorption-of-soldiers-from-different-cultural-ethnic-groups/664924/2 "2013-07-30T17:35:07Z")
Reported for forum change. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2013, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roman-army-and-its-absorption-of-soldiers-from-different-cultural-ethnic-groups/664924/3 "2013-07-30T17:54:26Z")
Moved to General Questions from ATMB. Colibri General Questions Moderator ---
**Author:** ![dolphinboy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dolphinboy/32/330_2.png) [@dolphinboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dolphinboy)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2013, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roman-army-and-its-absorption-of-soldiers-from-different-cultural-ethnic-groups/664924/4 "2013-07-30T18:01:56Z")
My sense is that a major ‘internal rebellion’ wouldn’t have been tolerated. Not that it didn’t happen to a lesser degree, but if you stepped too far out of line there was always someone ready to make an example out of you. Foreign soldiers probably weren’t happy about being drafted into the army, but as soldiers they were well taken care of, at least compared to slaves. ---
**Author:** ![Ambrosio\_Spinola](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9de0a6/32.png) [@Ambrosio\_Spinola](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambrosio_Spinola)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2013, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roman-army-and-its-absorption-of-soldiers-from-different-cultural-ethnic-groups/664924/5 "2013-07-30T18:03:19Z")
One had to be a Roman citizen to join a legion. If you wanted to fight in the Roman army but weren’t a citizen, you could try to sign up for one of the auxilia units. No matter what kind of unit you joined you might be posted somewhere else in the empire from where you came from. It’s my understanding that a lot of the auxilia units were composed of geographically/ethnically homogenous recruits, but since one of the benefits of serving was that you’d get Roman citizenship at the end of your term, you’d expect it to be biased towards the more pro-Roman sorts. They certainly didn’t just conscript random people from all over as your question suggests. ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2013, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roman-army-and-its-absorption-of-soldiers-from-different-cultural-ethnic-groups/664924/6 "2013-07-30T18:06:15Z")
> [@gnoitall](#): > > Reported for forum change. That was one method, yes. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2013, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roman-army-and-its-absorption-of-soldiers-from-different-cultural-ethnic-groups/664924/7 "2013-07-30T18:15:39Z")
And note that your auxilia unit would probably be posted far away from your homeland. It’s not like you’re recruited and next week you’re back on the streets of your hometown but working for the Romans now. You’d be shipped off somewhere where you had no local sympathies. So you have loyalty to your particular unit, because they’re your buddies, and when your boss tells you that you’re marching off to such and such a place to fight such and such a group, you obey orders. You don’t rebel unless your boss decides to rebel. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2013, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roman-army-and-its-absorption-of-soldiers-from-different-cultural-ethnic-groups/664924/8 "2013-07-30T18:28:36Z")
> [@davidmich](#): > > Hi > My question involves the absorption of soldiers of different cultural/ethnic groups to fight with the Roman imperial army. Was there a lot of internal rebellion within the army as a result? What was the incentive to serve an army that had conquered them? How did the Romans pull it off? I look forward to your replies > davidmich Well, at least in the early Julio-Claudian imperial system ( the answer will vary a bit depending on the period ) you had two distinct groupings. The core Roman legions per se, all Roman citizens, forming the primary heavy infantry backbone and the auxilia providing most of the cavalry, lighter infantry and specialty missile troops ( maybe 40-60% of the total Roman forces depending on time and location ). The auxilia forming the non-Roman parts of the Roman army were a disparate group, including allied troops serving as subjects of client states of Rome and non-citizens of the empire recruited on a voluntary basis. So the Romans didn’t _conscript_ auxiliaries much - they were mostly recruited and served for pay and sometimes other privileges ( for the upper classes ). That said auxilia units _were_ vulnerable to rebellion if the states/tribes they were recruited from went into revolt themselves and they were a little less reliable in times of stress generally. But the Roman legions had what Luttwak called “escalation dominance” - in a prolonged campaign the more reliable citizen legionaries could usually prevail over auxilia in a straight fight. So internal army revolts could and did happen and could be pretty nasty. But the fact that the _usually_ much more loyal citizen units could eventually outfight their foreign/non-Roman complements and the fact that said non-Romans were mostly paid volunteers tended to limit the revolts into occasional flare-ups rather than continuous ones. ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2013, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roman-army-and-its-absorption-of-soldiers-from-different-cultural-ethnic-groups/664924/9 "2013-07-30T18:33:04Z")
> [@Colophon](#): > > That was one method, yes. 😛 _Golf clap_ ---
**Author:** ![robert\_columbia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@robert\_columbia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robert_columbia)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2013, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roman-army-and-its-absorption-of-soldiers-from-different-cultural-ethnic-groups/664924/10 "2013-07-30T19:33:24Z")
> [@Ambrosio\_Spinola](#): > > …but since one of the benefits of serving was that you’d get Roman citizenship at the end of your term, you’d expect it to be biased towards the more pro-Roman sorts. They certainly didn’t just conscript random people from all over as your question suggests. Remember, service guarantees citizenship. ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2013, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roman-army-and-its-absorption-of-soldiers-from-different-cultural-ethnic-groups/664924/11 "2013-07-30T20:03:32Z")
With certain notable exceptions (the Jews, in particular) nations conquered by the Romans tended not to remain very resentful about it for very long. Life was better - the economy was better, things were more peaceful - for most people within the empire than outside it, and few (Jews again being perhaps the main exception) cared much about national freedom, or even national identity, which are largely relatively modern ideological inventions. You had simply exchanged being ruled, and maybe oppressed, by some local king, for being ruled, probably more competently and often less oppressively, by a far off emperor and his local officials (who, unlike the old local king, were subject to rules and constraints from above and administered a consistent and relatively fair system of laws). Few people had much incentive to rebel, especially not on nationalistic grounds. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2013, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roman-army-and-its-absorption-of-soldiers-from-different-cultural-ethnic-groups/664924/12 "2013-07-30T20:37:47Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Moved to General Questions from ATMB. > > Colibri > General Questions Moderator Have you ever looked at _how_ many times **davidmich** opens threads in ATMB that don’t belong there? I’m surprised that the moderators put up with this. They have _far_ more patience for this sort of thing than I do. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2013, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roman-army-and-its-absorption-of-soldiers-from-different-cultural-ethnic-groups/664924/13 "2013-07-30T21:28:18Z")
> [@Tamerlane](#): > > Well, at least in the early Julio-Claudian imperial system ( the answer will vary a bit depending on the period ) you had two distinct groupings. The core Roman legions per se, all Roman citizens, forming the primary heavy infantry backbone and the auxilia providing most of the cavalry, lighter infantry and specialty missile troops ( maybe 40-60% of the total Roman forces depending on time and location ). The auxilia forming the non-Roman parts of the Roman army were a disparate group, including allied troops serving as subjects of client states of Rome and non-citizens of the empire recruited on a voluntary basis. So the Romans didn’t _conscript_ auxiliaries much - they were mostly recruited and served for pay and sometimes other privileges ( for the upper classes ). > > That said auxilia units _were_ vulnerable to rebellion if the states/tribes they were recruited from went into revolt themselves and they were a little less reliable in times of stress generally. But the Roman legions had what Luttwak called “escalation dominance” - in a prolonged campaign the more reliable citizen legionaries could usually prevail over auxilia in a straight fight. > > So internal army revolts could and did happen and could be pretty nasty. But the fact that the _usually_ much more loyal citizen units could eventually outfight their foreign/non-Roman complements and the fact that said non-Romans were mostly paid volunteers tended to limit the revolts into occasional flare-ups rather than continuous ones. It depended. By the Third century, many auxilla units and formations had history going back hundreds of years and the differences between them and the regular legions were minimal. It was not unknown for a unit named for one ethnicity to have it designation become nominal after a while. Citizens could and did join the auxilla, indeed the descendants of those given Roman citizenship often joined the “family” legion. Finally, it is not totally true that troops were posted far away from where they were raised. The primary concern was need. Auxillaries could serve where they were raised, if they had skills that were useful in that area (say Armenia) or have be an area where there was a lot of activity, the Euphartes frontier. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2013, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roman-army-and-its-absorption-of-soldiers-from-different-cultural-ethnic-groups/664924/14 "2013-07-30T21:33:29Z")
> [@Colophon](#): > > That was one method, yes. 😛 +1 ---
**Author:** ![Vaevictis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f04885/32.png) [@Vaevictis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Vaevictis)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2013, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roman-army-and-its-absorption-of-soldiers-from-different-cultural-ethnic-groups/664924/15 "2013-07-31T02:01:23Z")
> [@dolphinboy](#): > > My sense is that a major ‘internal rebellion’ wouldn’t have been tolerated. Not that it didn’t happen to a lesser degree, but if you stepped too far out of line there was always someone ready to make an example out of you. > > Foreign soldiers probably weren’t happy about being drafted into the army, but as soldiers they were well taken care of, at least compared to slaves. You’re not right about internal rebellion not being tolerated. Think of how many successful military coups Rome experienced. And, once you get into the Empire, many of those military coups made non-Romans emperors. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2013, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roman-army-and-its-absorption-of-soldiers-from-different-cultural-ethnic-groups/664924/16 "2013-07-31T02:58:14Z")
> [@Vaevictis](#): > > You’re not right about internal rebellion not being tolerated. Think of how many successful military coups Rome experienced. And, once you get into the Empire, many of those military coups made non-Romans emperors. And even apart from that, many legions had substantial rivalries, often based on regional origin. ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2013, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roman-army-and-its-absorption-of-soldiers-from-different-cultural-ethnic-groups/664924/17 "2013-07-31T05:52:31Z")
I started reading Josephus a while ago, and after the chapter on the century before the Romans arrived, I would be very surprised if most Jews did not appreciate the stability brought by Roman government. (What have the Romans ever done for us?) ---
**Author:** ![Ranger\_Jeff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranger_jeff/32/2065_2.png) [@Ranger\_Jeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranger_Jeff)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2013, 7:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roman-army-and-its-absorption-of-soldiers-from-different-cultural-ethnic-groups/664924/18 "2013-07-31T07:02:52Z")
> [@md2000](#): > > (What have the Romans ever done for us?) All right, but apart from the sanitation, medicine, education, wine, public order, irrigation, roads, the fresh water system and public health, what have the Romans ever done for us? Sorry. I just had to get that out of my system. :o ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2013, 8:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roman-army-and-its-absorption-of-soldiers-from-different-cultural-ethnic-groups/664924/19 "2013-07-31T08:05:28Z")
One thing not yet mentioned is that internal discipline in the Roman military was, by modern standards, sometimes incredibly harsh - floggings and capital punishments of various sorts were standard for some things we’d consider not _quite_ so bad (“abusing one’s person”, for instance!) I’m sure that also applies if soldiers were fighting with each other over ethnic rivalries.