# Roman catholic question **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 23, 2021, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roman-catholic-question/956520 "2021-12-23T05:02:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2021, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roman-catholic-question/956520/181 "2021-12-30T13:45:56Z")
So far as I can tell, you haven’t made your point at all. ---
**Author:** ![its\_the\_daddy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/bb73d2/32.png) [@its\_the\_daddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/its_the_daddy)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2021, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roman-catholic-question/956520/182 "2021-12-30T13:56:57Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > One culture where respected elders are called “Grandfather” is electricians. The head electrician on a job is the “Gaffer”, a contraction of “grandfather”. In the UK, the shop steward of a newspaper or printer’s staff union is/was called the > **[Union representative](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Father_of_the_chapel)** > > A union representative, union steward, or shop steward is an employee of an organization or company who represents and defends the interests of their fellow employees as a trades/labour union member and official. Rank-and-file members of the union hold this position voluntarily (through democratic election by fellow workers or sometimes by appointment of a higher union body) while maintaining their role as an employee of the firm. As a result, the union steward becomes a significant link and c Th... ---
**Author:** ![smilingbandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4491bb/32.png) [@smilingbandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smilingbandit)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2021, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roman-catholic-question/956520/183 "2021-12-30T18:36:06Z")
The actual issue of the Spanish Inquisition is a complicated, and rather long, history that probably doesn’t need to be a topic here. For part of its time (and what people supposedly remember about it), it was a distinctly political institution which shored up support for the new, and somewhat shaky, united Spain. This is a much more complicated issue than it first appears, repleat with human failings. I will not discuss it here further because it’s more of a GD issue. However, “what people supposedly remember about it” is a very sticky issue. Most of the horror stories about it were devised by English fantastists who, around the reign of Elizabeth 1st, turned Spain into major target of public abuse. Some of that prejudice carries over even to this day. This was in large part because England (no Great Britain yet) adopted an anti-Spanish policy which was enthusiastically adopted. Note: I am not blaming Elizabeth for her actions, just pointing out that they were political decisions, and that the Spanish had a different interpretations both in a historical context and at the time. ---
**Author:** ![Schnitte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/schnitte/32/9033_2.png) [@Schnitte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Schnitte)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2021, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roman-catholic-question/956520/184 "2021-12-30T18:55:29Z")
Just throwing in that such anti-Spanish stereotypes were so common that they have their own name in historiography: The [black legend](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Legend_(Spain)). ---
**Author:** ![smilingbandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4491bb/32.png) [@smilingbandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smilingbandit)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2021, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roman-catholic-question/956520/185 "2021-12-30T19:43:11Z")
To clarify because I can no longer edit, imagine I wrote: This was in large part because **the English government** (no Great Britain yet) adopted an anti-Spanish policy which was enthusiastically adopted **in the public consciousness and popular literature**. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2021, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roman-catholic-question/956520/186 "2021-12-30T19:48:58Z")
It’s maybe worth mentioning that “nobody expects the Spanish inquisition” is just a Monty Python reference, and should be taken as a joke, not as serious commentary. ---
**Author:** ![EinsteinsHund](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/einsteinshund/32/8400_2.png) [@EinsteinsHund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EinsteinsHund)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2021, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roman-catholic-question/956520/187 "2021-12-30T19:53:59Z")
And I’m positive that nobody here takes the depiction of the Spanish Inquisition in the the Monty Python skit as historical. At least I hope so. ---
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2021, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roman-catholic-question/956520/188 "2021-12-30T20:01:11Z")
Wow. This is exactly what anti-Semites will be saying about the Holocaust in a few hundred years. “It was complicated…there were human failings…but most of the bad things you’ve heard were just British propaganda, the Germans had a different interpretation”. Excuse me while I go puke. ---
**Author:** ![smilingbandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4491bb/32.png) [@smilingbandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smilingbandit)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2021, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roman-catholic-question/956520/189 "2021-12-30T20:43:37Z")
I take exception to that comment, particularly in FQ. The Spanish Inquisition is a very murky subject. We don’t entirely understand the politics behind it (or maybe don’t understand at all). It represents a significant break in tolerance allowed compared to the pre-Spanish kingdoms, and we can point to some long-term impact it _may_ have had on culture. However, actual Inquisition violence was distinctly minimal, and if anything much less than other European kingdoms of the time. > **[Spanish Inquisition](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_Inquisition)** > > Pages for logged out editors learn more > > > > The Tribunal of the Holy Office of the Inquisition (Spanish: Tribunal del Santo Oficio de la Inquisición), commonly known as the Spanish Inquisition (Spanish: Inquisición española), was established in 1478 by the Catholic Monarchs, King Ferdinand II of Aragon and Queen Isabella I of Castile. It began toward the end of the Reconquista and was intended to maintain Catholic orthodoxy in their kingdoms and to replace the Medieval Inquisition, which... If you have a question regarding it, I don’t consider myself a scholar of the era but we can take it to a separate thread. ---
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2021, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roman-catholic-question/956520/190 "2021-12-30T22:03:14Z")
From your article: > The Inquisition was extremely active between 1480 and 1530. Different sources give different estimates of the number of trials and executions in this period; some estimate about 2,000 executions, based on the documentation of the _autos-da-fé_ , the great majority being _conversos_ of Jewish origin. He offers striking statistics: 91.6% of those judged in Valencia between 1484 and 1530 and 99.3% of those judged in Barcelona between 1484 and 1505 were of Jewish origin.[[48]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_Inquisition#cite_note-48) These people burned Jews at the stake. There is no room for moral ambiguity here. They were scum, and their memory should be cursed throughout all time. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2021, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roman-catholic-question/956520/191 "2021-12-30T22:15:20Z")
> [@Thing.Fish](#): > > There is no room for moral ambiguity here. They were scum, and their memory should be cursed throughout all time. But Queen Elizabeth was meaaaaaan to them! 😭 ---
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2021, 10:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roman-catholic-question/956520/192 "2021-12-31T10:31:40Z")
And what about [quote=“Babale, post:191, topic:956520, full:true”] > [@Thing.Fish](#): > > There is no room for moral ambiguity here. They were scum, and their memory should be cursed throughout all time. But Queen Elizabeth was meaaaaaan to them! 😭 [/quote] But her emails!! ---
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2021, 10:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roman-catholic-question/956520/193 "2021-12-31T10:46:31Z")
Aah, nevermind, you’re not worth the warning. I will just say I take exception to your being an apologist for anti-Semitic genocide and leave it at that. ---
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2021, 11:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roman-catholic-question/956520/194 "2021-12-31T11:05:32Z")
Right. It’s not like we had our own memories of our families and loved ones being tortured to death…the fact that Jews for the last 500 years have cursed the memory of the Inquisition is just due to us being fooled by clever Elizabethan propaganda. May all those who apologize for the Inquistion live to see the heads of their babies smashed against rocks. ---
**Author:** ![engineer\_comp\_geek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/engineer_comp_geek/32/504_2.png) [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2021, 11:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roman-catholic-question/956520/195 "2021-12-31T11:42:49Z")
---
**Author:** ![engineer\_comp\_geek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/engineer_comp_geek/32/504_2.png) [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2021, 11:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roman-catholic-question/956520/196 "2021-12-31T11:45:10Z")
This is a reminder that FQ is for factual discussions. Since this thread keeps going off the rails, both by not sticking to the topic and by not remaining factual, we’re done here. Those who wish to discuss other topics, feel free to do so in the appropriate forums. This is closed. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roman-catholic-question/956520.md?page=9)