# Roman catholic question **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 23, 2021, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roman-catholic-question/956520 "2021-12-23T05:02:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2021, 10:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roman-catholic-question/956520/121 "2021-12-27T10:58:18Z")
> [@Ulfreida](#): > > No one opposed to using this very particular honorific is publicly standing up for their own religious beliefs here, that I’ve seen, so these examples are not particular apropos. There is a completely different reason at play. This is just baffling to me. Multiple people in this thread have told you they wouldn’t refer to a priest as Father because they feel like it violates their religious beliefs. ---
**Author:** ![Ulfreida](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ulfreida/32/8014_2.png) [@Ulfreida](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulfreida)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2021, 11:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roman-catholic-question/956520/122 "2021-12-27T11:09:48Z")
I’m giving up. I don’t seem to be able to understand the point of this argument, no one seems to understand what I’m trying to say, and I no longer have any hope of either of these things changing at all. And yeah, I am angry. Not because I give a shit about non-Catholics calling a Catholic priest father, because I sincerely do not, but because I feel deliberately misunderstood (and so is Catholicism although that is also nothing new) and that is a real trigger for me. No more of this. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2021, 11:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roman-catholic-question/956520/123 "2021-12-27T11:22:23Z")
> [@Ulfreida](#): > > I’m giving up. I don’t seem to be able to understand the point of this argument, no one seems to understand what I’m trying to say, and I no longer have any hope of either of these things changing at all. I understand what you’re saying, but what you’re saying does not convince me that you are correct and I should agree with you. > [@Ulfreida](#): > > Not because I give a shit about non-Catholics calling a Catholic priest father, because I sincerely do not, I believe you don’t care a shit about that - what you seem to be having a problem with is that many non-Catholics DO have a problem with it. I do think you are having trouble understanding the viewpoint of other people, but that’s solely my opinion and may be incorrect. Insisting that the practice is a social norm and thus should be observed regardless of the feelings of those involved does ignore how social norms can be harmful to some people. Realization of this is one reason why so many social norms have changed in the recent past decades. ---
**Author:** ![Schnitte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/schnitte/32/9033_2.png) [@Schnitte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Schnitte)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2021, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roman-catholic-question/956520/124 "2021-12-27T12:38:13Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > The point is that in Jewish culture we consider it praiseworthy that someone didn’t jump through another religion’s hoops to the violation of his own even under threat of persecution; May I ask what you think is the polite way for a non-Jewish person to address a rabbi? I’m not Jewish, but I wouldn’t have a problem with using the title “Rabbi” which, as I understand it, translates as “teacher”. I wouldn’t consider that as jumping through the hoops of another religion but simply as the polite thing to do. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2021, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roman-catholic-question/956520/125 "2021-12-27T13:37:45Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > The point is that in Jewish culture we consider it praiseworthy that someone didn’t jump through another religion’s hoops to the violation of his own even under threat of persecution Every rabbi I’ve known has used “Father” when speaking to a priest. It may not be universal, but it is respectful. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2021, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roman-catholic-question/956520/126 "2021-12-27T15:35:55Z")
> [@Schnitte](#): > > “Rabbi” which, as I understand it, translates as “teacher”. The root is greatness, muchness. ‘Rabbi’ can equally be translated as ‘my master’ or ‘my lord/chief’, not teacher per se, at least etymologically. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2021, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roman-catholic-question/956520/127 "2021-12-27T16:07:40Z")
> [@Schnitte](#): > > May I ask what you think is the polite way for a non-Jewish person to address a rabbi? I’m not Jewish, but I wouldn’t have a problem with using the title “Rabbi” which, as I understand it, translates as “teacher”. I wouldn’t consider that as jumping through the hoops of another religion but simply as the polite thing to do. Do you not see the difference between a term like Rabbi or Priest (or Imam or Doctor) and a term like Father? The difference is, you can call someone Rabbi without the implication that he is YOUR Rabbi. You can call someone a Priest or Imam or Doctor or Reverend or Fuhrer without the implication that they are YOUR Priest or Imam or Doctor or Reverend or Fuhrer. But the only person you refer to as Father when speaking to them is your own father, or God in certain prayers. To give that title to someone who isn’t your father, and isn’t your God, just because he is the Priest of a foreign faith? That’s asking much. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2021, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roman-catholic-question/956520/128 "2021-12-27T16:28:07Z")
^ This. ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2021, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roman-catholic-question/956520/129 "2021-12-27T16:35:17Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Do you not see the difference between a term like Rabbi or Priest (or Imam or Doctor) and a term like Father? I’d say a lot of people don’t believe there _is_ a difference between addressing a priest as “Father” and addressing a Rabbi as “Rabbi” because they do not see addressing a priest as “Father” as implying that he is your father in the same way that referring to a sorority “sister” doesn’t imply that she is your biological/adoptive sister. I understand that you do, but surely you must recognize that there are many situations where people address others who are not actually relatives with kinship terms or with incorrect kinship terms - everything from fraternity brothers and sorority sisters, to calling other member of groups (unions and organizations such as the Elks) “sister” or “brother” , people (even as adults) calling their parents’ close friends “Uncle this” or “Aunt that”, people calling an older man “Pops” , people calling much older cousins “Aunt” or “Uncle” and so on. I assume you object to that as well, but you must know that many people do not. Not to mention that it seems rather uncommon for people to address their own father as “Father” - most people use a more familiar term such as “Dad”, “Papa” , etc. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2021, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roman-catholic-question/956520/130 "2021-12-27T16:40:47Z")
> [@doreen](#): > > I’d say a lot of people don’t believe there _is_ a difference between addressing a priest as “Father” and addressing a Rabbi as “Rabbi” because they do not see addressing a priest as “Father” as implying that he is your father in the same way that referring to a sorority “sister” doesn’t imply that she is your biological/adoptive sister. I understand that you do, but surely you must recognize that there are many situations where people address others who are not actually relatives with kinship terms or with incorrect kinship terms - everything from fraternity brothers and sorority sisters, to calling other member of groups (unions and organizations such as the Elks) “sister” or “brother” , people (even as adults) calling their parents’ close friends “Uncle this” or “Aunt that”, people calling an older man “Pops” , people calling much older cousins “Aunt” or “Uncle” and so on. I assume you object to that as well, but you must know that many people do not. That’s all certainly true. In all of those cases you have some kind of bond that you’re choosing to recognize by referring to someone as a brother, sister, etc. This is true of catholic priests as well. You are choosing to recognize the bond of your shared faith, of the respect you have for their role as guides of the community and the faith, etc. by calling them Father. I do not consider a catholic priest to be a guide or a shepherd, spiritually or in any other sense. The implication that I would is offensive to me, because there is a very long history of majority religions being forced on my people. So I choose NOT to grant a priest of a foreign religion a title that implies this bond, for the same reason I wouldn’t call someone binging to a fraternity that I am not a member of a “brother”. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2021, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roman-catholic-question/956520/131 "2021-12-27T16:41:16Z")
Years ago at work I had a guy I assume was a priest (are priests the only ones who wear that collar thing?) ask me if I would be discounting my services for him. I asked him why I would do that. He explained that many businesses gave discounts to members of the clergy. I explained that I was an atheist, and that I held a generally negative view of “members of the clergy”. I told him that I would be willing to do business with him, but there’d be no discount, and I’d understand if he took his business elsewhere. To his credit he continued to give me his business for years, until he passed away. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2021, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roman-catholic-question/956520/132 "2021-12-27T17:00:41Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > Years ago at work I had a guy I assume was a priest (are priests the only ones who wear that collar thing?) … No, some Protestant Ministers wear them also. ---
**Author:** ![Schnitte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/schnitte/32/9033_2.png) [@Schnitte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Schnitte)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2021, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roman-catholic-question/956520/133 "2021-12-27T17:28:55Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > The difference is, you can call someone Rabbi without the implication that he is YOUR Rabbi. In Semitic languages such as Hebrew and Arabic, the -i ending indicates a first person singular possessive, so literally, “Rabbi” _does_ mean “my teacher”. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2021, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roman-catholic-question/956520/134 "2021-12-27T17:32:15Z")
I know, Hebrew is my native language. But that’s not how the word Rabbi is used. If a non-Jewish person is uncomfortable using the term I won’t bitch at them though. ---
**Author:** ![Schnitte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/schnitte/32/9033_2.png) [@Schnitte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Schnitte)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2021, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roman-catholic-question/956520/135 "2021-12-27T17:34:21Z")
Fair enough. Then please accept that to many people, the usage of “Father” towards a priest does not imply the same relationship as you have towards your actual father; to them, that’s simply not how the word is used. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2021, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roman-catholic-question/956520/136 "2021-12-27T17:34:29Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > I do not consider a catholic priest to be a guide or a shepherd, spiritually or in any other sense. I can recognize that a rabbi is (in some sense) a teacher, while still not my own personal teacher. Surely, in the same way, a Catholic priest is a guide or shepherd, even if he’s not your guide or shepherd? Or to take the literal example: If you were in the country and saw someone tending to wooly ungulates, might you not address him by “Hey, shepherd!”? He’s definitely not herding you. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2021, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roman-catholic-question/956520/137 "2021-12-27T17:35:59Z")
> [@Schnitte](#): > > Fair enough. Then please accept that to many people, the usage of “Father” towards a priest does not imply the same relationship as you have towards your actual father; to them, that’s simply not how the word is used. Also I’ll not that in Hebrew you can call someone Rav Jones, not Rabbi Jones. Rav is missing the I suffix and so does not imply that Jones is YOUR Rabbi. That this didn’t cross into English is a limitation of English. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2021, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roman-catholic-question/956520/138 "2021-12-27T17:36:51Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > I can recognize that a rabbi is (in some sense) a teacher, while still not my own personal teacher. Surely, in the same way, a Catholic priest is a guide or shepherd, even if he’s not your guide or shepherd? Or to take the literal example: If you were in the country and saw someone tending to wooly ungulates, might you not address him by “Hey, shepherd!”? He’s definitely not herding you. That’s got absolutely nothing to do with what I said? A priest is a guide or shepherd, but not MY guide or shepherd, so I’m fine referring to him as Priest, but not as Father. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2021, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roman-catholic-question/956520/139 "2021-12-27T18:04:26Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > I can recognize that a rabbi is (in some sense) a teacher, while still not my own personal teacher. Surely, in the same way, a Catholic priest is a guide or shepherd, even if he’s not your guide or shepherd? Sure. And I’d be OK with calling a Catholic Priest “shepherd”. But he is NOT my father. “Father” occupies a very, very specific niche in my mind. ---
**Author:** ![Enjoy\_Slurm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/enjoy_slurm/32/3937_2.png) [@Enjoy\_Slurm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enjoy_Slurm)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2021, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roman-catholic-question/956520/140 "2021-12-27T18:16:58Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Wow. > > What is it with people thinking I’m angry or upset? WOW! It’s like you forgot the exact thing you said that I quoted you as saying. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roman-catholic-question/956520.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roman-catholic-question/956520.md?page=8)