# Roman dodecahedron - what do you think it was for? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 18, 2011, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roman-dodecahedron-what-do-you-think-it-was-for/585945 "2011-06-18T17:14:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Don\_t\_Panic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/don_t_panic/32/398_2.png) [@Don\_t\_Panic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_Panic)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2016, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roman-dodecahedron-what-do-you-think-it-was-for/585945/121 "2016-07-18T05:45:48Z")
For anyone suggesting a military purpose: Look, I know that it’s tempting to always think that Romans=legions, but can’t imagine that these have anything to do with the army. The legions were stationed along the frontiers at the time these things are dated to. [Here](http://www.romandodecahedron.com/public/data/image/map-europe.jpg) are the dodecahedra find sites: All in the west, mostly all around Gaul and Germania. So, they’re a Gallo-Roman thing, apparently. The finds that are on the frontiers can be explained by soldiers bringing them along as personal items. Also, there were usually civilian settlements around the army bases, too. My guess is that they have something to do with the calendar or the zodiac. Twelve sides, twelve months. Maybe some kind of fortune telling device, as has been suggested. (Ancient fortune telling could get pretty weird.) A Gallo-Roman Magic 8-Ball? The narrow range of the dating is pretty interesting. Apparently, they date from “the 2nd or 3rd centuries CE”. What does that mean, exactly? How precisely can we date these gizmos? Does it mean a spread of two centuries, or that they’re all from just around the turn of the second and third centuries? Or that we don’t know more precisely? In any case, it seems like a pretty narrow time range by Roman standards. It almost sounds like they were some kind of fad, like an ancient Rubik’s Cube. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2016, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roman-dodecahedron-what-do-you-think-it-was-for/585945/122 "2016-07-18T06:05:40Z")
> [@bLackbRight](#): > > Do I have to ponder to solve perplexing problems? No. > I have been an atheist my whole life and deviating from facts is not part of my dna. > > The Roman Dodecahedron is a target for archery. The front angle tilting backward catches the flying arrow. The different size holes are for different level of proficiency. (the tiniest hole is the bulls eye for the most proficient archer. The knobs on the corners are there to help station it and can easily be braced. The hollow interior makes stuffing it possible for reason to prevent complete penetration and or to hold a light within for night time hitting. The overall size of the RD is that of the human heart, the eye or any of many vital organs. Bronze and stone are the materials they are made because they’re the most durable to withstand hit after hit after hit > > I have also solved the Tri-Lobe Disk of Sabu/ Schist Disk. I think maybe you should ponder a bit more. The largest hole in the example I studied was 25mm (about an inch) in diameter. The smallest hole was just under 11mm. That would be absurdly small for an archery target. Most arrows would miss or at best strike a glancing blow, damaging the dodecahedron - and if you have to construct a backstop to catch the arrows that miss, you don’t need the dodecahedron as a target at all - you paint a dot on the backstop. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2016, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roman-dodecahedron-what-do-you-think-it-was-for/585945/123 "2016-07-18T13:05:40Z")
> [@Martian Bigfoot](#): > > My guess is that they have something to do with the calendar or the zodiac. Twelve sides, twelve months. Maybe some kind of fortune telling device, as has been suggested. (Ancient fortune telling could get pretty weird.) A Gallo-Roman Magic 8-Ball? > > … > > In any case, it seems like a pretty narrow time range by Roman standards. It almost sounds like they were some kind of fad, like an ancient Rubik’s Cube. Thay have to be something so mundane, so utterly unremarkable in their time that they never made it into any written records, and the Romans were obsessed with record keeping. Think something ordinary like a doorstop\*, not a religious or entertainment item. \*No, I don’t think they were literally doorstops, just that there were probably that common and undistinguished. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2016, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roman-dodecahedron-what-do-you-think-it-was-for/585945/124 "2016-07-18T14:58:00Z")
My own personal guess is that they are candle holders, with the different sized holes accommodating any candle. ---
**Author:** ![Doctor\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctor_jackson/32/32_2.png) [@Doctor\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doctor_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2016, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roman-dodecahedron-what-do-you-think-it-was-for/585945/125 "2016-07-18T15:05:16Z")
> [@bLackbRight](#): > > I have also solved the Tri-Lobe Disk of Sabu/ Schist Disk. No Schist? I hope it’s a better solution than the dodecahedron attempt… ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2016, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roman-dodecahedron-what-do-you-think-it-was-for/585945/126 "2016-07-18T15:08:06Z")
I too have wondered how to avoid schist on my disk. ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2016, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roman-dodecahedron-what-do-you-think-it-was-for/585945/127 "2016-07-18T15:20:56Z")
I don’t think they are candle holders. They don’t seem a very good design for that purpose. The holes aren’t going to fit every candle size and there is no reservoir to collect molten wax (although there could have been a separate dish). I would expect traces of wax to be found in the rough interiors of the dodecahedron if they were used for this purpose. A much simpler and more efficient design for holding candles of _any_ size would be a metal dish with a spike in it. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2016, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roman-dodecahedron-what-do-you-think-it-was-for/585945/128 "2016-07-18T15:23:25Z")
It’s evidence the Romans played a primitive version of golf. But they put the holes in the balls instead of in the ground! ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2016, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roman-dodecahedron-what-do-you-think-it-was-for/585945/129 "2016-07-18T16:17:23Z")
Well, it’s a Roman artifact, so barring contrary evidence I’m going to assume the purpose was fucking it every which way. It’s a prototype fleshlight. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2016, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roman-dodecahedron-what-do-you-think-it-was-for/585945/130 "2016-07-18T22:01:58Z")
i suggest that we are missing one or more parts to the puzzle. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2016, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roman-dodecahedron-what-do-you-think-it-was-for/585945/131 "2016-07-18T22:18:23Z")
> [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](#): > > I would expect traces of wax to be found in the rough interiors of the dodecahedron if they were used for this purpose. [It has been.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_dodecahedron) _“wax was found inside two examples.”_ ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2016, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roman-dodecahedron-what-do-you-think-it-was-for/585945/132 "2016-07-19T03:12:43Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > [It has been.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_dodecahedron) > > _“wax was found inside two examples.”_ Wax has been found in two of about a hundred known examples and that only means that at some point in the last two thousand years someone has put a candle in them, potentially only once. I’m not sure how it would work as a candle holder. [Here](http://edgarlowen.com/b5934.jpg)’s one from Roman times - a familiar form. When the candle burns down to the bottom it will burn itself out safely in the hole. If one were to put a candle in the top hole of a Roman dodecahedron then when the candle burns down to the metal it will drop down, potentially haphazardly. If one were to fix a candle in the bottom hole then the flame will burn down inside the dodecahedron and scorch marks would be clearly visible on the interior surface. A circular hole in a piece of metal does not seem to be a very safe way of securing a candle and ensuring it doesn’t lean to the side over time leading to a fire risk. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2016, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roman-dodecahedron-what-do-you-think-it-was-for/585945/133 "2016-07-19T03:21:31Z")
I imagine there’s a lot of wax all over ancient Roman stuff. They didn’t do electric lighting. ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2016, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roman-dodecahedron-what-do-you-think-it-was-for/585945/134 "2016-07-19T03:28:12Z")
Romans used oil lamps mostly, although they did also make candles from tallow, beginning around 500 BC (wiki). ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2016, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roman-dodecahedron-what-do-you-think-it-was-for/585945/135 "2016-07-19T03:31:25Z")
This was solved about two years ago: [they’re used to make the fingers for knit gloves.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=poGapxsanaI) ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2016, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roman-dodecahedron-what-do-you-think-it-was-for/585945/136 "2016-07-19T03:49:11Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > This was solved about two years ago: [they’re used to make the fingers for knit gloves.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=poGapxsanaI) I’ve seen that, but I’m not convinced. Here’s a similar Roman artefact - an [icosahedron](http://i.imgur.com/5h9bBYs.jpg) - which doesn’t have holes. I lean towards “ritual” use, but who knows. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2016, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roman-dodecahedron-what-do-you-think-it-was-for/585945/137 "2016-10-21T00:30:04Z")
I was looking into the Roman dodecahedra, and I found these two videos on YouTube that suggest that they were used for knitting/crocheting. The “knobs” on the vertices apparently suggested the idea, since they resemble similar knobs on modern forms. The two videos below show people using solid-printed replicas of the dodecahedra to crochet gloves, which explains the holes (although not, perhaps, why they were of different sizes. The hole-less icosahedron might have been used similarly, for crocheting something else. It’s not proof, by any means, but I’m impressed that they were able to use these replicas to make fairly decent gloves. [The Roman Dodecahedron - An ancient mystery solved? - YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=poGapxsanaI) (May 26 2014) [Knitting with a Roman Dodecahedron - YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76AvV601yJ0) (July 1 2014) ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2016, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roman-dodecahedron-what-do-you-think-it-was-for/585945/138 "2016-10-21T00:40:12Z")
Very cool. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2016, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roman-dodecahedron-what-do-you-think-it-was-for/585945/139 "2016-10-21T05:24:39Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > I was looking into the Roman dodecahedra, and I found these two videos on YouTube that suggest that they were used for knitting/crocheting. The “knobs” on the vertices apparently suggested the idea, since they resemble similar knobs on modern forms. The two videos below show people using solid-printed replicas of the dodecahedra to crochet gloves, which explains the holes (although not, perhaps, why they were of different sizes. > > The hole-less icosahedron might have been used similarly, for crocheting something else. > It’s not proof, by any means, but I’m impressed that they were able to use these replicas to make fairly decent gloves. > > [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=poGapxsanaI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=poGapxsanaI) (May 26 2014) > [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76AvV601yJ0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76AvV601yJ0) (July 1 2014) I’m not convinced - because the diameter of a piece of french Knitting is primarily influenced by the number of pegs and the tension - the size of the hole is nearly irrelevant. The results of the second video aren’t any different from the output of a standard french knitting process (such as mine here: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0LVzSuPFhNk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0LVzSuPFhNk)). There is no need for a dodecahedron to make tubular glove fingers. The first video (knitting a whole glove at once) is certainly inventive and I admire the dedication, but it’s so horribly awkward that I can’t honestly believe the Romans settled on it as a solution. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2016, 7:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roman-dodecahedron-what-do-you-think-it-was-for/585945/140 "2016-10-21T07:52:41Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > I was looking into the Roman dodecahedra, and I found these two videos on YouTube that suggest that they were used for knitting/crocheting. Already linked by Miller, 2 posts above yours, and commented on by Walken After Midnight in the post immediately above yours. It isn’t something that seems very likely. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roman-dodecahedron-what-do-you-think-it-was-for/585945.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roman-dodecahedron-what-do-you-think-it-was-for/585945.md?page=8)