# Roman dodecahedron - what do you think it was for? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 18, 2011, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roman-dodecahedron-what-do-you-think-it-was-for/585945 "2011-06-18T17:14:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Common\_Tater](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/common_tater/32/13846_2.png) [@Common\_Tater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Common_Tater)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2016, 9:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roman-dodecahedron-what-do-you-think-it-was-for/585945/141 "2016-10-21T09:09:08Z")
The Wiki entry notes that several of the 100+ found were associated with coin hoards, indicating that the owners must have thought they valuable or they were expensive. This tends to discount the notion that they didn’t have a function or were merely decorative, or were of a completely mundane utilitarian purpose. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2016, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roman-dodecahedron-what-do-you-think-it-was-for/585945/142 "2016-10-21T13:37:39Z")
> [@Common\_Tater](#): > > The Wiki entry notes that several of the 100+ found were associated with coin hoards, indicating that the owners must have thought they valuable or they were expensive. This tends to discount the notion that they didn’t have a function or were merely decorative, or were of a completely mundane utilitarian purpose. Perhaps folks were willing to pay big bucks for warm gloves. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2016, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roman-dodecahedron-what-do-you-think-it-was-for/585945/143 "2016-10-23T04:05:21Z")
> [@Common\_Tater](#): > > The Wiki entry notes that several of the 100+ found were associated with coin hoards, indicating that the owners must have thought they valuable or they were expensive. This tends to discount the notion that they didn’t have a function or were merely decorative, or were of a completely mundane utilitarian purpose. A bronze object in the classical era would be at least as valuable as the same weight of bronze coins. So it’s not too suprising people would sometimes store them together, especially if the owner had no other use for the object. I do wonder if there hadn’t been dodecahedra made of wood. My understanding is that few, if any, wooden objects from the Roman Empire have survived, so it wouldn’t be surprising if these hadn’t. Metal was a rather expensive material in those days, so if these had a utilitarian purpose, you’d expect cheaper ones to be wooden. If they were purely “ritual” or other non-utilitarian, then I could see only metal. But there were a few stone ones, so probably wooden ones too. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2016, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roman-dodecahedron-what-do-you-think-it-was-for/585945/144 "2016-10-23T05:50:13Z")
They originally contained little bells. They were cat toys. ---
**Author:** ![lisiate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f05b48/32.png) [@lisiate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lisiate)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2018, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roman-dodecahedron-what-do-you-think-it-was-for/585945/145 "2018-08-09T22:59:43Z")
Reviving this thread to link to a fairly [comprehensive survey](http://mentalfloss.com/article/514246/are-roman-dodecahedrons-worlds-most-mysterious-artifact)of available theories. Personally I think the range finder or Astronomical device theories are the most plausible. Although the glovemaker fits the distribution of finds a bit better I guess. ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2018, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roman-dodecahedron-what-do-you-think-it-was-for/585945/146 "2018-08-10T12:42:56Z")
Just checked: no one posting to this thread has used one of these as their avatar yet. Seems like an obvious in-board reference. ---
**Author:** ![Dodorkahedron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d26b3c/32.png) [@Dodorkahedron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dodorkahedron)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2026, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roman-dodecahedron-what-do-you-think-it-was-for/585945/147 "2026-01-15T00:47:08Z")
Since the Romans were engineers, it seems like these were multi-tools/ jigs. They’re obviously designed to last and built to some kind of specification. Because they have been mostly found around France & the UK, my denarius says one of those uses was as a field repair device for soldiers. Some types of pilum were meant to be single use held together with wooden pins but there’s no way a Roman soldier would leave weapons behind after battle. Referring to a previous post, the legions conquered so much because they didn’t need to spend time returning home to refit. If a soldier found a broken pilum, he could use a dodecahedron to determine which size pin to use during repair. On the other hand if he found a broken arrow he could use a dodecahedron to make sure a replacement shaft was the right diameter to fit the tip. The Chinese had figured out whistling arrow tips by the first century BCE so is it possible these could make a noise traveling at the right speed? As a bonus he could use it for thread to darn his tunic and it made a great cat toy when he got home. ---
**Author:** ![Askance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askance/32/8281_2.png) [@Askance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askance)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2026, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roman-dodecahedron-what-do-you-think-it-was-for/585945/148 "2026-01-15T02:16:27Z")
> [@Dodorkahedron](#): > > They’re obviously … built to some kind of specification. They are? Because they are ALL different - in overall size, and the size and pairing of holes. And why the knobs? > [@Dodorkahedron](#): > > Because they have been mostly found around France & the UK, my denarius says one of those uses was as a field repair device for soldiers. Why only soldiers from European areas, not North Africa, the Balkans, or the Middle East? ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2026, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roman-dodecahedron-what-do-you-think-it-was-for/585945/149 "2026-01-15T04:52:36Z")
> [@Askance](#): > > Why only soldiers from European areas, not North Africa, the Balkans, or the Middle East? Yep. Especially since, [as I said in the other, more recent thread](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roman-dodecahedrons/980459/17): those were often _the same soldiers_. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2026, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roman-dodecahedron-what-do-you-think-it-was-for/585945/150 "2026-06-03T22:58:18Z")
[It’s been solved _for real_ this time!](https://www.reddit.com/r/outofcontextcomics/comments/1tvjjot/reeeeeeed/#lightbox) ---
**Author:** ![pjd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pjd/32/3009_2.png) [@pjd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pjd)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2026, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roman-dodecahedron-what-do-you-think-it-was-for/585945/151 "2026-06-03T23:09:57Z")
That makes sense. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2026, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roman-dodecahedron-what-do-you-think-it-was-for/585945/152 "2026-06-04T14:33:26Z")
Here’s a paper I just found, dated last year. They review many of the existing hypotheses and propose a brand new one thsat appears to come out of nowhere – that these were used for creating infused fibrous discs. This seems possible, but I’m far from convinced that such discs even ever existed, let alone that the dodecahedra were used to make them. > **[Roman\_Dodecahedra-libre.pdf](https://d1wqtxts1xzle7.cloudfront.net/125445151/Roman_Dodecahedra-libre.pdf?1763574049=&response-content-disposition=inline%3B+filename%3DThe_Case_of_the_Mysterious_Roman_Dodecah.pdf&Expires=1780586830&Signature=MD5E~22019XssA7zn0Y0OQRdzYLShFzJ2cTcbvX-hkYcN0aj~CDnkhn6Sxyl-AzYoiG8sGryrt0FxXE985grQUpODijwwXcbsnCJ8Jr6HrwyqePEXmuZ-Ml~CqW2Anu3MOBUrv2q-d~D~4yyv~adpObV-WmQNKIsVw1CF6RRIuIBvTX51VQOc901kpkjnOc3WM25duUMj49EFTPXy5IADicpCFa-PNZWVFQSnvawn4hPe1kESRw4NLespwVboulPhlUP2yToSOB3ONDFnO~HDbOLafd-7hQbDsMyvfNte39AieRQWCV8WZLVS~2AglFutRYejo1RlHPilgZcHMvJ8Q__&Key-Pair-Id=APKAJLOHF5GGSLRBV4ZA)** > > 790.91 KB And here’s another recent paper, also from last year > **[The\_Roman\_Dodecahedron\_A\_Comprehensive\_Scientific\_Inquiry-libre.pdf](https://d1wqtxts1xzle7.cloudfront.net/121732793/The_Roman_Dodecahedron_A_Comprehensive_Scientific_Inquiry-libre.pdf?1741543614=&response-content-disposition=inline%3B+filename%3DThe_Roman_Dodecahedron_A_Comprehensive_S.pdf&Expires=1780587241&Signature=M7UaR5qMyYEArHCOfjmN6dwroxh6eiY2JV4TDj8fjNsIAKkaJNn3r4pinhZwEsyJe83W2CSJ2aAzYXbJt2fz5b2wC-nMODVOzkQcEKFmAvJ3Jh0wBuRDDvDs7gWVQNgh2dU4~jXDgG7df-9bzTsFUlzPlXyM3F6pH2M~eXa2jXFrdVzyPgapNRl51QE05QGd3ac1LAV-3p30ijEJV1Qo8Ut-P88MC2f9CN6wZLH5~V6mUAP2UMWJy1rUy686htEslHnLk828Qm65h1mhFj7Owv~M6oGEupVxx3RCE4453PXwxd78eNpDOKZXIpNK1SbRFgJxj1KmfqHq1P5P40hc3A__&Key-Pair-Id=APKAJLOHF5GGSLRBV4ZA)** > > 112.29 KB ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2026, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roman-dodecahedron-what-do-you-think-it-was-for/585945/153 "2026-06-04T14:42:10Z")
So what did the comic claimed the Fantastic Four used them for? And @CalMeacham , what even is an “infused fibrous disc”? ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2026, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roman-dodecahedron-what-do-you-think-it-was-for/585945/154 "2026-06-04T14:57:57Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > what even is an “infused fibrous disc”? I only did a quick scan, but it appears to be a disc of natural fibrous material (in the illustration it looks kinda like a dried cattail) that has been infused with some liquid material. They imply that it’s drawn up by capillary action, and that the knobs are needed to support the disc high enough so that it’s not “swimming” in the liquid infusion, but only getting what it can suck up. Why? I don’t know. Infused perfume for scented discs or infused wax for wicks or something. I’ll have tp read the paper through, rather than glance at it. I’m not terribly convinced, though. But at least this suggestion explains why certain features are needed. ---
**Author:** ![pjd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pjd/32/3009_2.png) [@pjd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pjd)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2026, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roman-dodecahedron-what-do-you-think-it-was-for/585945/155 "2026-06-04T15:01:42Z")
Apparently … > Depending on the liquid composition, the final product may function as a wick tablet, incense pellet, fire-starter puck, aromatic disk, or ritual offering tab. Also … > This process naturally predicts the following archaeological outcomes: > > 1. absence of surviving fibrous disks: the products are organic, combustible, and small, and therefore unlikely to preserve; > 2. absence of internal residue: liquid does not enter the dodecahedron; it remains external; > 3. minimal wear on apertures: the fibrous disks contact only the inner rim gently; > 4. no soot or burn scoring: combustion occurs only after the pellet is removed from the device; > 5. distribution in workshops, domestic settings, or ritual contexts, matching the provincial, non-standardised pattern observed archaeologically. > > These predicted signatures are consistent with the existing archaeological record. So, lack of any evidence seems to corroborate this theory ! ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2026, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roman-dodecahedron-what-do-you-think-it-was-for/585945/156 "2026-06-04T16:24:37Z")
> [@pjd](#): > > So, lack of any evidence seems to corroborate this theory ! Yeah – that’s one reason I’m not fond of this theory “We haven’t found any examples of it, but we can’t really expect any to survive. Ergo, this might be the correct theory!” ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2026, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roman-dodecahedron-what-do-you-think-it-was-for/585945/157 "2026-06-04T16:46:51Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > So what did the comic claimed the Fantastic Four used them for? No idea, I just saw the panel and thought of this thread. ---
**Author:** ![jnglmassiv](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f07891/32.png) [@jnglmassiv](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jnglmassiv)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2026, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roman-dodecahedron-what-do-you-think-it-was-for/585945/158 "2026-06-04T20:06:01Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > what even is an “infused fibrous disc”? That, outside any other context, sounds like a description of some filters. The thing in a coffee basket could be described like that. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2026, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roman-dodecahedron-what-do-you-think-it-was-for/585945/159 "2026-06-04T20:12:01Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > So what did the comic claimed the Fantastic Four used them for? > **Summary** > > Defeating aliens. > > [https://i.ibb.co/60C3vWY0/Fantastic-Four-012-2026-Digital-Shan-Empire-1-14.jpg](https://i.ibb.co/60C3vWY0/Fantastic-Four-012-2026-Digital-Shan-Empire-1-14.jpg) > > [https://i.ibb.co/B2k42ygr/Fantastic-Four-012-2026-Digital-Shan-Empire-1-15.jpg](https://i.ibb.co/B2k42ygr/Fantastic-Four-012-2026-Digital-Shan-Empire-1-15.jpg) > > [https://i.ibb.co/354YZgn0/Fantastic-Four-012-2026-Digital-Shan-Empire-1-16.jpg](https://i.ibb.co/354YZgn0/Fantastic-Four-012-2026-Digital-Shan-Empire-1-16.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![markn\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@markn\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/markn_1)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2026, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roman-dodecahedron-what-do-you-think-it-was-for/585945/160 "2026-06-04T21:04:34Z")
After skimming the paper, I’m not happy with the “fibrous disk” theory for a few reasons: 1. If this was the purpose of the dodecahedrons, I would expect to see simpler versions, essentially a single face: a plate with a hole and legs. They say that the multiple sized holes “provide versatility for a variety of organic material”, but that seems a stretch. Why couldn’t they make all their disks the same size and use a much simpler infuser design that would be enormously easier to manufacture? 2. They provide very scant discussion of what these infused disks would be used for. They mention that depending on the infused liquid, they could be “wick tablets” infused with oil, “firm durable pellets” infused with wax, “incense-like disks” or “fat-rich mixtures” used as fire starters. What is a “wick tablet”? What would a wax-infused “firm durable pellet” be used for? Is there any evidence that the Romans used any of these things? Fire starter is the only one that seems plausible to me, but there’s no need for such an object to be of a uniform fixed size. 3. The dodecahedron seems poorly designed for this purpose. They say that the hole “constrains the disk’s radial expansion during saturation, ensuring that the material does not over-expand or tear as it absorbs the heated liquid”. Why would a disk tear as it expands? Why does it matter if it over-expands? If the goal is to constrain the disk to a fixed size, it seems that the walls of the dodecahedron should be thicker, to contact the entire thickness of the disk. It seems to me that if the bronze constraint is thinner than the disk, the disk will expand to an hourglass shape, wider than the hole on both sides. Removing such an object from the dodecahedron would be difficult and likely to tear it. I’m also not happy with the obviously AI-generated illustrations at the end of the paper. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roman-dodecahedron-what-do-you-think-it-was-for/585945.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roman-dodecahedron-what-do-you-think-it-was-for/585945.md?page=9)