# \[Roman\] Dodecahedrons **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 27, 2023, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roman-dodecahedrons/980459 "2023-02-27T21:46:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 44
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2025, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roman-dodecahedrons/980459/861 "2025-06-03T14:47:37Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > If he’s serious about the latter, then his opinion (on this) is laughable and safely discounted. I think so too, but I have to think that a soldier would be knitting gloves, socks, hats, etc. in Northern Europe because of the cold. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2025, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roman-dodecahedrons/980459/862 "2025-06-03T15:01:04Z")
> [@WotNot](#): > > I’m not wedded to stringing them in sets, I was just trying to think of a use for all those bloody knobs. Obviously they could simply be decorative, or have some other use. I think the knobs are legs, that allow it to stand any way up. > [@MrDibble](#): > > I’ve just watched a bit, and he seems to think the jewelry chain-making proposal could have been used by legionaries to knit chainmail. Except he doesn’t. He say’s it’s an interesting theory, but points out flaws and doesn’t accept it. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2025, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roman-dodecahedrons/980459/863 "2025-06-03T15:06:52Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > I have to think that a soldier would be knitting gloves, socks, hats, etc. in Northern Europe because of the cold. Possibly. Although they seemed to have no problem [getting socks from home](https://web.archive.org/web/20200729074622/http://vindolanda.csad.ox.ac.uk/4DLink2/4DACTION/WebRequestQuery?searchTerm=346&searchType=number&searchField=TVII) even at the furthest reach of the Empire. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2025, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roman-dodecahedrons/980459/864 "2025-06-03T15:16:09Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > Except he doesn’t. I was going by the brief bit I saw, and Saint\_Cad’s summary. But I watched a bit more, and I don’t see where he says anything further indicating the chain mail part specifically is ridiculous. Only that the _overall_ proposal doesn’t fit with the lack of wear. He still calls it “a pretty solid theory” and says “I like that theory”. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2025, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roman-dodecahedrons/980459/865 "2025-06-03T15:18:58Z")
But he doesn’t accept the theory as correct or proven. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2025, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roman-dodecahedrons/980459/866 "2025-06-03T15:26:58Z")
Just thinking chain mail is even a possibility is still a fail. ---
**Author:** ![Lucas\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lucas_jackson/32/303_2.png) [@Lucas\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucas_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2025, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roman-dodecahedrons/980459/867 "2025-06-03T15:27:12Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Who is Joe Scott and why should we care? > [@MrDibble](#): > > So … not an archaeologist or an expert on Roman-era technology? FWIW, I enjoy Joe’s videos. They are entertaining and if you are not versed in a subject, can give you a good jumping off point for further exploration. As this thread, and the above posts illuminate, people can become quite passionate about things we can only, as of now, guess about. I’m not saying I agree with the chainmail making theory, but as far as I know, no expert on Roman-era technology has yet provided a clear answer to what these things are. For now, one educated guess is as goods as another… or wild-ass guess for that matter. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2025, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roman-dodecahedrons/980459/868 "2025-06-03T15:30:44Z")
> [@Lucas\_Jackson](#): > > . For now, one educated guess is as goods as another. There’s nothing “educated” about the chain mail guess. It’s flat out stupid, is what it is, and could only have originally been made by someone who has never seen actual mail, only knitted wool jerseys spraypainted silver.. And no, one guess is not as good as another, even wild-ass ones. ---
**Author:** ![Lucas\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lucas_jackson/32/303_2.png) [@Lucas\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucas_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2025, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roman-dodecahedrons/980459/869 "2025-06-03T15:50:12Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > And no, one guess is not as good as another, even wild-ass ones. I said “educated” guess, and as long as the answer is not known, yes they are. We are not moving in on an answer in shades of degrees - we have no idea what they are for. Neil deGrasse Tyson thinks there are hundreds of millions of advanced civilizations in the universe, Donald Brownlee, another highly respected astronomer, thinks we might be the only one. They are both respected experts in their field yet they are quite a bit off in their guessing - because the actual answer is unknown. Therefor both guesses are valid, for now. ---
**Author:** ![Retzbu\_Tox](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/retzbu_tox/32/11829_2.png) [@Retzbu\_Tox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Retzbu_Tox)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2025, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roman-dodecahedrons/980459/870 "2025-06-03T16:44:41Z")
I watched the Joe Scott video all the way through. I have made chainmail when I was in the Society for Creative Anachronism. I have met a lot of people wearing a variety of reproduction armor. I have looked through museum catalogs for examples of armor, jewelry, shoes, clothing, furniture, and other items to reproduce. I have never seen “chainmail” armor that could have been produced using that dodecahedron weaving technique. Chainmail is made by assembling lots of individual rings, not from a continuous wire. I suspect the fingers of woven wire gloves would be a bit inflexible. As far as one guess being as good as another, even when you can’t tell which guess is right, you may be able to eliminate some guesses as wrong. Jewelry made by that technique could be a possibility. ---
**Author:** ![Lucas\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lucas_jackson/32/303_2.png) [@Lucas\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucas_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2025, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roman-dodecahedrons/980459/871 "2025-06-03T16:50:34Z")
Nevermind ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2025, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roman-dodecahedrons/980459/872 "2025-06-03T18:09:54Z")
> [@Lucas\_Jackson](#): > > I said “educated” guess Which the mail-knitting suggestion clearly isn’t. > [@Lucas\_Jackson](#): > > as long as the answer is not known, yes they are No. Not knowing the answer _doesn’t_ mean all suggestions are equally valid. Far from it. Some suggestions can be eliminated outright based on things we _do_ know. ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2025, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roman-dodecahedrons/980459/873 "2025-06-03T18:50:49Z")
It’s likely an example of confirmation bias: 1) Come up with an explanation, 2) Seek out evidence that supports it, 3) Ignore or deemphasize evidence that doesn’t support it. When I first started working in an R&D lab, my supervisor warned me against confirmation bias. He would repeatedly say, “Don’t come up with a conclusion and then look for evidence. Instead, resist the temptation to opine about stuff and gather as much evidence as possible. Look at the evidence, all of it, and hopefully it will lead you to a conclusion.” ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2025, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roman-dodecahedrons/980459/874 "2025-06-03T19:18:13Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > and could only have originally been made by someone who has never seen actual mail, only knitted wool jerseys spraypainted silver.. When I was a child my mother worked for various clothing factories (which kept going out of business). One in particular cut big stacks of cloth from patterns at the same time, and had a machine with something like a foot long reciprocating razor blade to do it. When the blades got down to mearly damn sharp instead of holy shit sharp they would be “thrown away” but mostly taken home by employees. (We had kitchen knives that were those blades with a thick masking tape handle.) When that place closed, the employees took home whatever small items weren’t nailed down. One of my favorite posessions as a child was one of the chain mail gloves that people wore while wirking with those knives. It was only two fingers and a thumb, but otherwise very similar to this (and heavy by itself, a whole shirt of it would be crazy.) > **[Carver's Chain Mail Glove - Lee Valley Tools](https://www.leevalley.com/en-us/shop/tools/apparel-and-safety-gear/gloves/56153-carvers-chain-mail-glove?item=67K8403)** > > Discover the Carver'S Chain Mail Glove. Buy this product now on our Lee Valley online store. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2025, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roman-dodecahedrons/980459/875 "2025-06-03T19:19:41Z")
A lot of potential uses for the dodecahedrons don’t make sense because no simpler, lighter, easier to construct, and less costly devices for that purpose haven’t been found. Who knits gloves? Not rich people, and a piece of wood with some holes and some wooden knobs or just notches around the sides could be used to knit gloves. Who needs a 12 sided heavy object to do that? Same thing with a taper gauge or other measuring device. No idea how a 12 sided shape made of bronze, with 5 knobs around each of 12 holes helps to make chain mail. ---
**Author:** ![Lucas\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lucas_jackson/32/303_2.png) [@Lucas\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucas_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2025, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roman-dodecahedrons/980459/876 "2025-06-03T19:30:58Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Which the mail-knitting suggestion clearly isn’t. I’ve already admitted I didn’t agree with the mail-knitting theory. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2025, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roman-dodecahedrons/980459/877 "2025-06-03T19:32:02Z")
I don’t understand why this is in reply to me? I know perfectly well what real mail is like. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2025, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roman-dodecahedrons/980459/878 "2025-06-03T19:34:01Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > I don’t understand why this is in reply to me? Just a general comment. Excuse the fuck out of me for burdening you with it. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2025, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roman-dodecahedrons/980459/879 "2025-06-03T19:34:07Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Possibly. Although they seemed to have no problem [getting socks from home](https://web.archive.org/web/20200729074622/http://vindolanda.csad.ox.ac.uk/4DLink2/4DACTION/WebRequestQuery?searchTerm=346&searchType=number&searchField=TVII) even at the furthest reach of the Empire. The reason Rome conquered all of Europe and North Africa is because they were absolute masters at logistics. > [@Lucas\_Jackson](#): > > Neil deGrasse Tyson thinks there are hundreds of millions of advanced civilizations in the universe, Donald Brownlee, another highly respected astronomer, thinks we might be the only one. They are both respected experts in their field yet they are quite a bit off in their guessing - because the actual answer is unknown. Therefor both guesses are valid, for now. Sure, but knitting chainmail is in the same territory as “there’s an advanced civilization on Venus”. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2025, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roman-dodecahedrons/980459/880 "2025-06-03T19:41:24Z")
[Moderating] > [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > Just a general comment. Excuse the fuck out of me for burdening you with it. There was a minor misunderstanding, it was resolved, there’s no need for anyone to get snippy about it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roman-dodecahedrons/980459.md?page=43) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roman-dodecahedrons/980459.md?page=45)