[Roman] Dodecahedrons

[Mangetout]

Even so, getting underneath it to try to poke a stick through one of the holes and catch it seems like a recipe for kinetic dentistry.

It’s an entertaining thought; maybe the Romans would have liked watching that!

[Chronos]

@Francis_Vaughan

It that it it appears the majority of holes were cut after casting that likely leads to more inconsistency. Probably cut with scribing tool set up as a compass. Same tool used for engraving the surrounding pattern on some dodecahedra. The scribe diameter was probably just set by hand for each operation. This handwork is going to be the dominant component of manufacture.

However, adding the ornamentation to the wax pattern would have been my guess, but the descriptions claim that it was added after.

On at least some of the ones with concentric circles around the holes, it looks like the circles might have been templates for the later-to-be-drilled holes. But of course, that too isn’t consistent, and some with concentric circles just seem to be outlining the hole.

[Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor]

Another article.
And another dodecahedron.
https://www.vice.com/en/article/dy3jpx/ancient-roman-dodecahedron-discovered-in-norton-disney

[Retzbu_Tox]

Scroll up the thread to January 19. That’s when we started discussing this particular new dodecahedron and woke the thread from an 8-month coma.

This new one is nice - It’s in good condition and bigger than many others.

[Mangetout]

@Chronos

On at least some of the ones with concentric circles around the holes, it looks like the circles might have been templates for the later-to-be-drilled holes. But of course, that too isn’t consistent, and some with concentric circles just seem to be outlining the hole.

The precision of concentricity suggests the holes and inscribed rings were made on the same centre, at the same time.

That is, inscribing a bunch of concentric rings on the surface with compasses or something similar, then scoring the innermost inscribed circle deep enough to cut right through; either in the wax before casting or in the bronze after, but from a common centre either way.

[Lucas_Jackson]

From the article:
“On the second-to-last day of our dig, I’m busy making the tea, as you do.”

[Northern_Piper]

The front page of Wikipedia today has an entry for Celtic / Anglo-Saxon hanging bowls:

Benty Grange hanging bowl

The article explains that the archaeologists don’t know the purpose of the hanging bowls:

The purpose of hanging bowls, and their places of manufacture, is unknown.[2] They appear to have been manufactured by Celtic makers in Britain in the post-Roman period; examples were also used by Anglo-Saxons (who likely received bowls via trade) and, later, by [Vikings].

Many suggestions have been made as to the original use of hanging bowls, including as lamps or lamp reflectors,[8] votive vessels hung in churches,[9] vessels for liturgical use such as washing hands or communion vessels,[10][11]sanctuary lamps, wayside drinking vessels of the sort Edwin of Northumbria is said to have provided for travellers,[12] finger bowls,[13] scale pans for weighing wool,[14] magnetic compasses, food containers, holy water stoups, wash basins, and ceremonial vessels used in mead halls.[15][16]When they were acquired by Anglo-Saxons and Vikings, the bowls likely took on even more uses.[15] Whatever their original functional purpose, by the seventh century hanging bowls appear to have been increasingly associated with wealth and the status of their owners;[17] during the seventh and early eighths centuries hanging bowls were a common feature in richly furnished Anglo-Saxon graves.[18] By this point, the role of hanging bowls as a status symbolmay have been more important than any functional purpose.[17]Vikings - Wikipedia)

I think it’s obvious: the hanging bowls were used to store Romans dodecahedrons.

[silenus]

I use mine to store onions and eggs.

[Babale]

While looking for a meme to fit another thread, I stumbled on this:

[Retzbu_Tox]

It’ll be just our luck if Roman dodecahedrons are actually thoroughly explained in the Voynich Manuscript or in some Linear A tablet.

[Measure_for_Measure]

@CalMeacham

I still think the use of the dodecahedra as forms for knitting/crocheting gloves (and possibly) other items is the likeliest explanation – it explains the “knobs” at the vertices and would be consistent with their presence in cold climates.

But I’ll throw something else out there. This may simply be coincidence, but when I looked at the distribution of dodecahedra on a map it reminded me of something else – the distribution of underground temples to Mithras (called mithreaea, plural of mithraeum ):

The 2 main facts we have to work with are space (the map) and time (0-500 CE). Also, the objects are neither common nor rare and so far they don’t seem to be consistently found with a single common category of objects.

If the dodecahedron has a utilitarian use then it is a technology. Technologies are invented, but they are also supplanted. So what replaced the dodecahedron around 500 CE? If it’s a technology, it was a reasonably successful one, but it also was one that was completely replaced.

This isn’t a slam dunk argument, because technological fads can exist. I keep thinking about the hypothesis that it was a test for craftsmen. But I think a lack of antecedents or precedents would support the religious or religious cult explanation. Archeologists claiming it was a technology need to explain what came before and after it.

[Measure_for_Measure]

So: Platonic solid has mystical significance for some cult. Dodecahedron is a custom made platform to mount jewels of various sizes, the jewels being more valuable than the platform. (I know, sometimes they lack holes.) Maybe they are showcased on sticks: everyone likes scepters. Except competing religious groups.

They are replaced by the cross. The valuable jewels are stripped off and repurposed. The remaining dodecahedron is too beautiful to throw away, and not threatening enough to be ordered destroyed.

[gnoitall]

But made of reusable metal. So it’s a mystery how they would have avoided being smelted for their bronze.

[TriPolar]

Maybe a lot of them were. The dodecahedron’s esthetic value may have been considered greater than the intrinsic value of the base metal. A lot of bronze objects have survived from those times, though many of them probably were melted down and reused.

[Chronos]

@Measure_for_Measure

Dodecahedron is a custom made platform to mount jewels of various sizes, the jewels being more valuable than the platform.

Those would be some awfully big jewels.

[Measure_for_Measure]

@Chronos

Those would be some awfully big jewels.

They aren’t diamonds, that’s for sure. I was thinking of something made of glass. I’m not wholly convinced my hypothesis is aesthetically plausible. Would encrusted dodecahedrons be sufficiently attractive?

Argument against: googling, images of sceptres have a different feel to them. They aren’t many-sided.

Argument for: Maybe the knobs help hold the pretty-objects in place?

[bob_2]

Another one has been found in Lincolnshire, England:

It’s a big one too: “one of the largest ever found, measuring about 3in (8cm) tall and weighing half a pound (245g)”

[pjd]

It’s been noted …

[Roman] Dodecahedrons

A “new” dodecahedron was found in Britain in June of 2023, which is intact and a bit larger than most of the others that have been found. [image]

[What_Exit]

New article on the Norton Disney Dodecahedron:

Roman object that baffled experts to go on show at Lincoln Museum

[Fish_Cheer]

Another one in the Washington Post (gift link).

“I wonder in 2,000 years what an archaeologist will think when she discovers some of the tools or the junk we throw away without the instruction manual.”